Game Preservation

[aloram]

I recently read an interesting article/blog entry by Jeremy Parish on the topic of game preservation, and I figured some Retromags users might find it a worthwhile read.

http://2-dimensions.com/2014/07/27/by-request-game-preservation/

[Iano]

Good read. It's a shame that we're entering an era of games that will be more difficult is not impossible to properly preserve. When the discs ship with a 2 month old build and the day one patches are 10+ gig we're banking heavily on the publisher to produce a platinum hits, etc. down the road that is complete. It's a shame we don't have someone like GOG that can step in on the console side /w DRM-free releases.

[miketheratguy]

I legitimately fear for the future of my favorite hobby. With publishers getting so wrapped up in combating piracy, delivering half-finished games, requiring mandatory tethers to the internet, changing the consumer terminology from "ownership" to "leasing" and desperately trying to switch users from physical media to online storage, it feels like it won't be long before we no longer HAVE anything to archive. I mean hell, we don't even get instruction manuals anymore. Remember those?

The balance in the relationship between publisher and consumer continues to tilt dangerously close to one side holding all the power, and that side isn't us.

[aloram]

Not directly related to the topic, but miketheratguy, I have to say that I appreciate the tone of your numerous posts on Retromags. You seem like a really friendly person who's here to make a positive contribution. It hasn't gone unnoticed!

[KHANV1CT]

I legitimately fear for the future of my favorite hobby. With publishers getting so wrapped up in combating piracy, delivering half-finished games, requiring mandatory tethers to the internet, changing the consumer terminology from "ownership" to "leasing" and desperately trying to switch users from physical media to online storage, it feels like it won't be long before we no longer HAVE anything to archive. I mean hell, we don't even get instruction manuals anymore. Remember those?

The balance in the relationship between publisher and consumer continues to tilt dangerously close to one side holding all the power, and that side isn't us.

I agree with you here. With a lot of these games requiring check-ins online with these DRM servers what if they decide they don't want to maintain them anymore?

[Areala]

I figure the only thing I can really do to make myself heard in this battle is to only buy stuff available in physical format if it's a big deal to me.

I don't always adhere to that philosophy, as I've purchased some digital-only stuff on my PS3, but as a hard rule I refuse to buy any game if it requires me to run a separate application just so that I can play it (Steam, Origin, etc...). That means I'm pretty much done with PC gaming since there's so little out there that hasn't moved to this "we let you rent the game for as long as we think you should be allowed to play it, aren't we kind and benevolent overlords?" model.

I LOVE the GOG model though, and I've purchased a number of classics through them. Seriously, Good Old Games is a fantastic business, and if you're on the fence about them, take the plunge. It's a great way to get both old and new software at great prices without all the intrusive bullshit of always-on DRM, server-side authentication, SECUROM, Steam, or any of that other garbage.

*huggles*
Areala

[DPsx7]

Wow, we're much alike it seems. I'll buy a few games digitally if that's the only option and if it costs $10 or less. The vast majority of my collection is physical. I too have given up on PC's because of 'malware' like Steam or Origin. Ever since getting the Aimon (a mouse controller for the PS3) I've had no reason to touch PC as a gaming platform.

Anyway I often partake in discussions like this on other forums. I'm pretty stubborn about keeping a physical format. I don't think we have to worry about that for a while because gaming is a worldwide market and we simply don't have the infrastructure in place nor have solutions to the other hurdles. The people going all digital seem lazy to me, saying things like they don't want to switch discs or they aren't responsible enough to keep their discs away from destructive pets and children. The discs themselves are resistant to damage, you have to TRY to break them.

Preservation is something I'd like to see a focus on. If by some crappy chance we end up losing our physical formats I'm prepared to stop buying new content and going back to enjoy all the games I've gathered over the years. It's my own preservation solution. My future is set regardless of how things turn out. If anything we may exchange optical formats for something like cards, carts, or flash memory. I'd be ok with that.

[miketheratguy]

Not directly related to the topic, but miketheratguy, I have to say that I appreciate the tone of your numerous posts on Retromags. You seem like a really friendly person who's here to make a positive contribution. It hasn't gone unnoticed!

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic because all I've done in the general "future of video games" topic like this one is bitch.

If you're being serious though then thanks, I appreciate it. I've actually lurked / browsed / downloaded from Retromags for something like 7 or 8 years, I think, but for some reason never joined the forums and finally just decided that I should. As much as I probably do come across as snarky in some of my posts I actually am a pretty nice and easygoing guy, just your average everyday harmless geek who grew up a passionate video game fan and has a lot of memories and opinions of them. If my comments have an enjoyable tone a lot of it probably comes from the years I spent as sort of the elder mascot on the now-defunct THQ forums, where getting into conversations and debates about video games (and wrestling) with dozens of people was a regular thing. It's fun chatting with people here, you guys are generally closer to my age group.

I agree with you here. With a lot of these games requiring check-ins online with these DRM servers what if they decide they don't want to maintain them anymore?

I can't remember what game it was but I just read about that very thing happening not too long ago. Then you've also got situations like the notorious debacle that was the SimCity launch in 2012 or so, when the game - which required a persistent online connection for basically no reason other than to disprove the company's suspicions that you were a thief - was so overloaded with players trying to connect that the servers crashed. This of course meant that millions of people who'd just legally purchased a sixty dollar game couldn't even play it, even just by themselves in an offline single-player mode. That's.... well that's really just ridiculous.

I'm not personally familiar with Diablo III but my understanding is that they had their own nefarious scheme to "verify" its customers. Apparently the game could only be played once you went online, signed up for an account on the game's website, and registered your game with that account. This "tethered" that SPECIFIC copy of the game to you and you only, based on all your personal details and login information. What did this mean? First it meant that you couldn't ever sell the game, unless you wanted to give your detailed information to whomever you sold it to. On top of that, this was a violation of the game's EULA, and the company of course reserved the right to ban your account if it found out that you'd violated the EULA. And what happens if, for any reason, the company decides to ban your account? That's right, your tethered game is now disconnected - meaning that you can't ever play your game again. If I'm wrong I'm wrong but this is my understanding of how Blizzard handled Diablo III, at least until enough people had the good sense to complain.

All this (and more) profound inconvenience for paying customers just so the publishers can prevent someone from playing their game for free, which a pirate with even a shred of determination is going to wind up figuring out how to do anyway..

The people going all digital seem lazy to me, saying things like they don't want to switch discs or they aren't responsible enough to keep their discs away from destructive pets and children. The discs themselves are resistant to damage, you have to TRY to break them.

The most frequent arguments I've heard in favor of gaming going exclusively digital are variations of the theme "I don't like having games all over the floor". So wait, let me make sure I understand: You're telling me that your existence is so disorganized and your living space so insufficient that you'd rather trust an impersonal third party corporation to take control of the things that you've spent money to own than even be given the choice of permanently and independently accessing physical versions of your own possessions? O... .....Okay...

[kitsunebi]

The most frequent arguments I've heard in favor of gaming going exclusively digital are variations of the theme "I don't like having games all over the floor". So wait, let me make sure I understand: You're telling me that your existence is so disorganized and your living space so insufficient that you'd rather trust an impersonal third party corporation to take control of the things that you've spent money to own than even be given the choice of permanently and independently accessing physical versions of your own possessions? O... .....Okay...

I used to be a pack rat - I collected all sorts of things: comics, games, CDs, DVDs, magazines... But when I moved halfway around the world, I had to leave all that stuff behind, and from that point onward, I went completely digital. Everything I used to have in physical form now resides in my growing collection of external hard drives (the only collection I have anymore). Stuff that would have filled an entire room now can all fit into a small box. The change to digital was forced upon me by circumstance, but now that I've gotten used to it, I wouldn't have it any other way.

HOWEVER, I agree that giving up ANY ownership rights is complete BS. I OWN everything I have on my hard drives (in the sense that no one has control over it but me.) I refuse to put up with DRM in any form - if I pay for something, it should be mine to use as I see fit. Admittedly, I don't play any games in the current generation (or even the previous one), so a lot of the issue is moot for me, but part of the reason I've been turned off to modern gaming IS because of increased DRM and other nonsense like always having to pay extra for DLC to get the full game.

I would never suggest that all physical things be abolished in favor of digital copies (even if that is how I prefer to obtain them), but going digital doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean giving up right of ownership.

(Although now that I think about it, I'm still attached to the need to possess my digital resources on physical storage devices...I don't think I could bring myself to trust keeping practically everything I own in cloud storage, as I'm sure will be more common in the future...)

[aloram]

I used to be a pack rat - I collected all sorts of things: comics, games, CDs, DVDs, magazines... But when I moved halfway around the world, I had to leave all that stuff behind, and from that point onward, I went completely digital. Everything I used to have in physical form now resides in my growing collection of external hard drives (the only collection I have anymore). Stuff that would have filled an entire room now can all fit into a small box. The change to digital was forced upon me by circumstance, but now that I've gotten used to it, I wouldn't have it any other way.

Same situation here. I completely agree.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic because all I've done in the general "future of video games" topic like this one is bitch.

I wasn't being sarcastic at all, I sincerely appreciate your contributions.

[miketheratguy]

I used to be a pack rat - I collected all sorts of things: comics, games, CDs, DVDs, magazines... But when I moved halfway around the world, I had to leave all that stuff behind, and from that point onward, I went completely digital. Everything I used to have in physical form now resides in my growing collection of external hard drives (the only collection I have anymore). Stuff that would have filled an entire room now can all fit into a small box. The change to digital was forced upon me by circumstance, but now that I've gotten used to it, I wouldn't have it any other way.

HOWEVER, I agree that giving up ANY ownership rights is complete BS. I OWN everything I have on my hard drives (in the sense that no one has control over it but me.) I refuse to put up with DRM in any form - if I pay for something, it should be mine to use as I see fit. Admittedly, I don't play any games in the current generation (or even the previous one), so a lot of the issue is moot for me, but part of the reason I've been turned off to modern gaming IS because of increased DRM and other nonsense like always having to pay extra for DLC to get the full game.

I would never suggest that all physical things be abolished in favor of digital copies (even if that is how I prefer to obtain them), but going digital doesn't (or at least shouldn't) mean giving up right of ownership.

(Although now that I think about it, I'm still attached to the need to possess my digital resources on physical storage devices...I don't think I could bring myself to trust keeping practically everything I own in cloud storage, as I'm sure will be more common in the future...)

I agree with pretty much all of your points. Firstly, I'm surprised to meet someone else who doesn't play any games of this console generation. To be fair I technically do, but all of my modern gaming is done on the PC. When the PS4 and Xbox1 dropped I didn't see any reason whatsoever to "update" and here, a good two years later, neither have shown me anything to change my mind. This generation is the first since the Atari 2600 that I haven't jumped into the next wave at opportunity one, and when I realized that I was kind of taken aback. It really said something, to me at least, about the changing climate of the industry and how reluctant I am to be a part of it.

I definitely appreciate the convenience of digital. After all I wouldn't be here if I didn't - all of my NPs, EGMs, PSMs and whatever else are packed away in storage boxes and quite the pain to dig through, so having the majority of them here in digitally archived form is incredibly useful. It's honestly kind of amazing to me that a good hundred or so pounds of sheer magazine are all stored on an SD card the size of my thumbnail and readily accessible in seconds on my ebook reader. 600 movies sit on my hard drive, ready to watch with little more than a few mouse clicks. A thousand songs are on my ipod and I can skip to whichever one I want to listen to in seconds. The next generation won't even know what it was like to have to rewind a VHS tape before returning it to a video store or stop and fast forward a cassette tape a dozen times in the hopes of landing on a certain song. These are amazing times that we're living in.

At the same time, I value my physical collection. I like holding my old video game magazines in my hand, tangible flashbacks to my childhood that I can actually hold and page through and even smell. I like shopping for items by walking into a store and treating my eyes to aisle upon aisle of merchandise that I can actually pick up and examine. I trust myself enough to properly care for the games that I buy rather than let an online entity "store" them for me and potentially dictate how and when I can access them in the future. I enjoy owning my games, not just "leasing" them or whatever the modern fine print says I'm doing when I hand the cashier my money.

Digital delivery (and storage) is an incredible thing that's made our favorite hobbies more convenient than ever, and I'm more or less okay with it as long as we continue to have the option of choosing media that's physical. But we're at a precipitous point in the industry where I worry that maybe the beast that we're feeding is eventually going to take a big enough bite that we'll be left without any fingers.

[kitsunebi]

At the same time, I value my physical collection. I like holding my old video game magazines in my hand, tangible flashbacks to my childhood that I can actually hold and page through and even smell. I like shopping for items by walking into a store and treating my eyes to aisle upon aisle of merchandise that I can actually pick up and examine. I trust myself enough to properly care for the games that I buy rather than let an online entity "store" them for me and potentially dictate how and when I can access them in the future. I enjoy owning my games, not just "leasing" them or whatever the modern fine print says I'm doing when I hand the cashier my money.

I used to be the same way, and still am, to a point. Especially with my music - why would I buy mp3s when they are a lossy compression format? I could buy the CD and get lossless sound, and I could always rip my own mp3s for free at that point. But then a funny thing happened - I realized that every time I bought a CD, I would immediately rip it to mp3, and that was pretty much the last time I would touch the CD again. It had become nothing but so much clutter at that point.

But the biggest factor that changed my need for the physical was pretty much taken out of my hands when I moved. I recommend anyone wanting to become less dependent on collecting STUFF to move across an ocean - anywhere will do, especially if the move isn't a lifelong-permanent one. You'll realize that shipping is extremely high and it just isn't practical to bring a lifetime's accumulation of goods with you. So you pack whatever will fit into your luggage and weep tears of despair as you leave the STUFF behind. But once that break is made and the bandage is ripped off, you realize it isn't so bad, after all. You can pretty much find downloads to replace all the STUFF and add even more (though the legality of it may questionable sometimes), and you don't ever find yourself craving that tangible sensation of holding the STUFF in your hands.

Now, don't get me wrong, STUFF is naturally imbued with a powerful aphrodisiac, and should you ever be reunited with the STUFF you left behind you will caress it tenderly and beg its forgiveness for ever thinking it could be replaced with unfeeling 1s and 0s. I have that happen every time I visit home. I've been paying to keep all of my STUFF in a storage unit for the past 8 years. Think about that - 8 years of paying something like $60 a month to store things that I never even see more than once a year at most. I've bought 3 cars (used of course) during those 8 years, and the sum total cost is less than I've paid to store the STUFF during that time. It's insanity.

Which is why, every time I visit home, I make a concentrated effort to get rid of some of the STUFF, so that I might one day stop paying a second monthly rent like I'm keeping an apartment in the city where I can get my tangible FEELS on whenever it's convenient. Sure, throwing everything in the garbage would solve my problems in one fell swoop, but I could never bring myself to do that. I have to make sure my STUFF finds a good and loving home. I'm not a monster, after all. Unfortunately, doing so takes time (and trying to sell things on eBay generally requires you to be in the country for longer than a week if you want to have time to list, sell, and ship things - I usually just don't have the time). I donated all of my books to reading charities, and that cleared up some space, but I've still got comics out the wazoo (probably around 30 long boxes, if you know what those are). And then there are the magazines...I won't get rid of those until they've been scanned, but every time I see my beloved box full of unscanned PC Gamers, I succumb to their charms and find something else in the storage unit to get rid of instead. I know that once they've been scanned, I'll hardly miss them when they're gone, but when I've got them in my hands, it's incredibly hard to imagine slicing them apart to do so.

So while I know that if you CAN bring yourself to part with your things, you're unlikely to have too many regrets, I also definitely understand the pull and the power of the physical collection.

*But again, digital is only worth having if you OWN it. That is, you have all the files needed on your own storage, and no one else has the right to prevent or restrict your usage of those files.

[Tanavin]

I agree with you here. With a lot of these games requiring check-ins online with these DRM servers what if they decide they don't want to maintain them anymore?

This has already happened with countless games. And there are a growing number of stories where diligent fans have brought such games back to life.

http://kotaku.com/how-star-wars-galaxies-fans-brought-a-dead-game-back-to-1751840627

The enterprise technology that powers the modern corporate world will eventually give consumers much more power to do this kind of thing far more easily (including reverse engineering server side code). Virtualization is one such example, where now anyone can easily encapsulate a physical machine into a file, and replicate or re-purpose in any number of interesting ways. The tech used for cloud infrastructure allows instantiation of not just physical machines but entire network infrastructures, replicating as needed. Leveraging these types of technologies to preserve entire networks much like we might preserve an iso image or a pdf will happen sooner than you might think. Technology is moving quickly.

[MetalJuggalo]

Silver lining is that there is some game preservation... between abandonware and a buncha isos over on archive.org (those guys are pretty cool) we're taking a step in the right direction... I do however wonder with todays games... how do you preserve em? Maybe by just tossing the GOTY/Complete Editions since... well they're the games with all the DLC on it I suppose.

[aloram]

I read an awesome article last night on this topic. It's long, but well worth a read.

http://www.usgamer.net/articles/whats-so-secret-about-classic-game-curation

[MisterXiado]

I tend to take some care of the things I buy that aren't going to last forever. I have a few boxes of old magazines, comics that are 20 years old or more, and computers from the eighties through now. I don't have a lot of disks, though what I do have, I'm seeking ways of preserving before they fail. The process would be much faster and more fruitful if the job market in the US wasn't the abject hell that it is today.

[mjkerpan]

Sadly, proper GOTY-style all-inclusive editions are actually getting rarer. As game companies continue their war on used game sales, even when such things are released, they often just include a single-use code for a one-time download of the extras. For collectors, it's a bad scene.

[DefaultGen]

Maybe the kids growing up with Xbox 360 and PS4 are going feel strongly enough about them to make some bootleg Xbox Live that hosts all of the patches when they get to the age where they want to go back and collect a full library of 360 games (those maniacs).

Passionate fans have brought back old World of Warcraft releases or dead games like Star Wars Galaxies. Connecting up your old Xbox to "XBL Reloaded" or whatever might just be their version of refurbing a 72 pin connector or replacing N64 joysticks, something that needs to be done if you're collecting