Final Fantasy Re-Releases Ruins Pureness

[baphoon]

With all the recent re-releases of the Final Fantasy series games SquareEnix has been adding some new options to these games such as skipping random encounters and adding the instant limit breaks. Does anyone else feel like its ruining the pureness of these titles? Or do you think its nice to have more options? I feel like by removing random encounters you are taking away a major part of what made old style RPG/JRPG games great. They were used to increase your level, gil/money, and stats. I feel like by removing them its taking away so much of how the game was meant to be played and in turn ruining the experience of a longer play time and in ways depending on what options you choose making the games just way to easy and short. I am a old school gamer and maybe odd in this way but I liked the grind and I still enjoy the grind when replaying these old games and even some modern games built on this style. What do you think of these changes?

[ctophil]

Square Enix is basically trying to cater to a new and larger audience by making it more action oriented and taking away random battles. I guess the vast majority of people prefer the more "realistic" approach to RPGs. It's more of a western mentality. You've noticed that western RPGs are more action than traditional, D&D-style, turn-based battles. The western mind is all about high-octane action (hence, the most popular genres here are fps shooters and sports titles). While in the East, the RPG genre still remains supreme. The RPG genre requires us to enjoy the subtleties of a grand storyline, leveling up system, character development, and just take in the richness and complexity of the virtual world. The Western mind, on the other hand, would rather trade the above for headshots, how fast you can kill your online buddies, and who will win the next football game. Of course, I'm speaking of the majority of people in the west. Some of us still like to think and feel about our games.

Do these "new" Final Fantasy titles take away the "pureness" of older titles? If you ask my opinion, yes it does. If you are going to continue to release new Final Fantasy games, you should stick to its traditions. These days, FF titles no longer feel like Final Fantasy other than the moogles, chocobos, music remixes, and other fan tributes. So the people want more action-style RPGs? Give them those games with an original IP. Don't use Final Fantasy anymore for your experiments. You are going to lose your core audience by smudging the Final Fantasy name. Of course with original IPs, people are not going to recognize the title. That's why Square Enix wants to keep releasing new types of Final Fantasies. It's pure business. Remember that without the "Final" Fantasy back in the day, Square Enix would have been no more.

I don't like the modern Final Fantasy either. I love the traditional titles, especially FF IV, VI, and VII. But let's face it, you are going to have to stick with the older games or look for games that have traditional JRPG aspects, such as titles by Mistwalker run by the creator of Final Fantasy, Hironobu Sakaguchi (Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, The Last Story), Bravely Default series (very traditional RPG), Shin Megami Tensei and Persona series, Atelier series (PS2 and PS3--Atelier Iris, Atelier Rorona, Atelier Totori, etc), Ar Tonelico series (pretty much any title done by Gust Team are good), and you can try the indie game, Pier Solar, which was inspired by Lunar and FF series.

[baphoon]

Ctophil great post. It's nice to see someone who appreciates old style RPG's. Great recommendations too in your post a few I have played and a few I will need to check out. I think you are completely right with the Final Fantasy series it's just gone way to far off of where it used to be. In my opinion and I usually get burned for this but Final Fantasy VI aka III was the best game in the series. I have re played it more times than I can count on both hands and feet and easily many more times than dare I say it Final Fantasy VII. I sometimes often wonder if Square and Enix had not merged how many more classic RPG like titles we could have ended up with. Enix made some great games in their time too not all the typical turn based RPG but still great games like Dragon Warrior, Soul Blazer, Illusion of Gaia, ActRaiser, to name a few.

[kitsunebi]

I don't follow new games at all, but if the ability to skip random battles and whatnot is an option, then how is it ruining the game? Anyone who appreciates the traditional JRPG style (which has remained largely unchanged over the past 30 years) can keep those options turned off. Meanwhile, anyone wanting to make use of those options (presumably a gamer weaned on newer games) now has a way to be able to enjoy games they might otherwise find tedious. How is choice a bad thing?

[baphoon]

I don't think having a choice is a bad thing. I think when giving the option that completely changes the way the game is structured to be played is put in place it ruins the game. Again this is just my opinion and I am here to see what others think so I appreciate you're response. These options to me would be similar to say using a Game Genie or cheat code device. Sure it can be short term fun, humorous, and tempting but it butchers the way the game is intended to be played and in turn usually ruins the longevity and replay value of a title. I feel like the whole natural progression of the game is being rushed through by implementing an in game cheat option.

[kitsunebi]

Well, on a personal level, I completely agree with you. I was mostly playing devil's advocate for the gamers who aren't accustomed to spending half of their RPG game-playing time grinding by hitting the A button over and over and over and over...(well, maybe some of those games could be a BIT less grind-y). But yeah, take away the random battles and there really isn't anything left to most JRPGs but a connect-the-dots linear plot (also navigated by pressing A over and over), which while it might be interesting, could hardly be considered "gameplay."

There's something soothing about grinding sometimes (which is why I've played through the original Dragon Quest/Warrior four times in different incarnations. But I can't fault someone else who finds such repetition dull, so it's good that they have the option to alleviate the grinding available to them. And everyone else gets the added satisfaction of feeling superior by playing the "right" way.

[baphoon]

Well said. I do agree there is something soothing about grinding. Many times at night when I can't sleep I will grab a handheld and grind a bit on a RPG it helps me turn my brain off and finally get to sleep. As a bonus the next day if I play I am ahead of the game. I also enjoy grinding while like watching a tv show or movie on Netflix its a great way to multitask and catch up on shows that I am behind on. I can remember playing vanilla WoW many years ago (have not played in 5+ years) my first character a hunter I actually did very minimal questing and not a single dungeon and I ground my way all the way to 50 which was max level if I remember right at the time. I ended up with a ton of money, items, and crafting skill doing it that way.

[pablumatic]

Removal of random encounters sounds like it would only help speed along the game if you were already at a high enough level to beat boss encounters. So I don't mind the inclusion. Players would not get very far without eventually turning them back on to raise their levels through grinding.

[kitsunebi]

It would also be useful to be able to turn off random encounters whenever traversing through parts of the game where all the enemies are significantly weaker than you, and battles are nothing but a nuisance that don't provide enough experience to be worth the trouble.

[miketheratguy]

I actually haven't played a JRPG since... . ...Jeez, I want to say Final Fantasy VIII. I know that that was the last game in that particular series that I ever played, that much is for sure. It's not even that I thought the game sucked (though it was a wild departure from pretty much everything that I first loved about a game called "Final Fantasy"), it was that I just suddenly found myself needing a break from the typical JRPG formula. I thought that after playing some other games I'd get back to it, but I guess I just never really did.

Anyway I'm obviously out of the loop - the only Final Fantasy games that I ever play now are remakes of IV and VI - so I'm surprised to hear about the optional elimination of random battles. I mean, how does the game even work then? Do you just find yourself at arbitrarily higher levels whenever you encounter the next boss?

Getting rid of random battles would move a title's gameplay along at a faster pace, allowing the player to enjoy more of the game instead of spending all their time grinding. At the same time I'm sick of all the adjustments and provisions and hand-holding that keeps happening to franchises these days. It seems that everything's being made simpler to cater to a wider audience and to a gamer like me, that sucks. Skyrim is the best example that I can think of: The Elder Scrolls used to be what I would describe as a hardcore RPG: Loads of quests, loads of guilds, loads of immersion, unpredictable enemy strength, lore-friendly (backpack style) inventory screens, the need to navigate by relying on landmarks and lengthy NPC directions. By the time Skyrim rolled around the dumbing-down of the series' structure that began with Oblivion only continued. Less quests, less guilds, less immersion, enemies whose levels all scale to match the player's, scrolling cell phone-style inventory screens, easy navigation by way of a fast travel button, an onscreen compass and map markers that magically point out exactly where to go. Skyrim is a great game and I love it, but I'd be lying to myself if I thought that the game wasn't watered down and made more accessible than its predecessors for the sake of making more money.

It would also be useful to be able to turn off random encounters whenever traversing through parts of the game where all the enemies are significantly weaker than you, and battles are nothing but a nuisance that don't provide enough experience to be worth the trouble.

Right, that or give the player an option that can be switched on or off at any time which disables encounters with enemies that are at a lower level than the player's. That way either the encounter rate would be less frequent, since the lower-level enemies aren't popping up, or the battles are as frequent as always but don't feature time-wasting jobber monsters.

[te72]

It isn't completely unprecedented, the "easy mode" in RPG's. It's been mentioned by a few of you, but nobody has quite hit it on the head just yet.

The Suikoden series had the Champion Rune, which I think was the very best implementation of a reduced counter rate. Equipping the rune on one of your party members would eliminate "fluff" random encounters, ones that were so far below your level that you would only gain 5 exp (out of 1000 required for a level up), and were essentially a waste of your time. However, you still would encounter appropriate, challenging random enemies.

FF8 also had Diablos' Enc-Half and Enc-none passive abilities, which cut random encounter rate in half, and eliminated it, respectively.

I see the elimination of random encounters, as an option, a great thing for folks who enjoy low level game challenges. So you have beaten a game once or twice, enjoyed the long play through, seen everything that needs to be seen, done all the optional side quests, but still find yourself loving the game's play style, and want a challenge. Try playing through a game like FF8 or 9 at level 1. It's entirely possible, and in 8's case, even sort of easy. But it makes you think in new ways, of how to really master the game.

Watching the guys from the youtube show Continue? play Dragon Warrior 1 for the NES, however, is strangely entertaining, even though in 10 or so episodes I've watched, they've done next to nothing to advance any plot in the game...

Now all that said, I really enjoyed Resident Evil 3's Mercenary mode. If you got good enough at it, you could eventually unlock some sweet cheats, much like you could in Goldeneye on N64. There were skill-based challenges that unlocked the cheats. Some were harder than others, but I find that RE3 had a good balance with Mercenary mode. You weren't too invested in the long term (being that you were on a short timer to complete it), so you would take risks that you might not otherwise take in an RE title.

However, some games, to unlock the cheats, you have to be so good at them, that really... you wouldn't need them, and it wouldn't add anything to the game for you. I find that to be a bit poor balancing. Coming up with an example off the top of my head is proving difficult though. As for me, I absolutely had a blast with the infinite ammo in RE games, and while it may have defeated the purpose of the game for some, I found that it only took the edge off the stress level of playing the game a bit. It was still a lot of fun, and you obviously weren't forced to use said cheats.

Tool long, don't want to read? Suikoden series did it best, with the Champion Rune.

[RobertDuncan]

If you want pureness you'll always have your old games that Will forever remain stagnant and unchanged but life is about evolving to cater to the ever changing and increase of new kids and adults new taste in gaming heck the Japanese are now becoming more casual than western gamers ya know. I mean I know we all have Nostalgia about our childhood but well Nostalgia is just old memories we'll never get back. It's like complaining about America's always lost innocence every time there's a tragedy it just losses all meaning. Now with regards to final Fantasy nes games I say kudos to them I mean in today's modern life people are bat***** CRAZY they live in a fast paced world and everbodys whose cool has some psychology disorder lol unlike the past as for myself I just can't sit through and play old RPGs like final Fantasy with the ever constant random battles,long grindings and such heck the first one didn't even have a proper story or ending. I believe game developers should strive to make a game balanced for retro and new fans but we'll we all know you can never fully pleased everybody's expectations.

[KHANV1CT]

I think it's a good thing. Sometimes you just want to play the game and skip the BS. If you don't like the features, don't use them and play them as they were intended to be played.

[miketheratguy]

The Suikoden series had the Champion Rune, which I think was the very best implementation of a reduced counter rate. Equipping the rune on one of your party members would eliminate "fluff" random encounters, ones that were so far below your level that you would only gain 5 exp (out of 1000 required for a level up), and were essentially a waste of your time. However, you still would encounter appropriate, challenging random enemies.

There we go. That's what more JRPGs need.

[te72]

There we go. That's what more JRPGs need.

That idea came from a game released in 1995/1996. Twenty years ago. Too bad that series is most likely done, stick a fork in it, not coming back, huh?

[miketheratguy]

That idea came from a game released in 1995/1996. Twenty years ago. Too bad that series is most likely done, stick a fork in it, not coming back, huh?

Meanwhile Final Fantasy is on game number XVIIMMXXI - 2: Sinfonietta of the Hypnogagic Profundity.

[Areala]

The mechanic's been around longer than Suikoden. The first Dragon Warrior game, for instance, had the Fairy Water item which kept lower-level monsters away from you in the overworld for X number of steps. It didn't work in caves or dungeon areas, but it was nice if you needed to run and restock your keys at Rimuldar and didn't want to waste time fighting every Red Slime and Drakkee between there and Tantegel Castle.

Final Fantasy VI had a relic called the Moogle Charm which greatly decreased the enemy encounter rate if Mog was equipped with it and lead the party. It didn't stop 100% of random battles, but it took care of enough of them to save you time if you had a lot of hiking to do through weaker areas or across the Veldt.

*huggles*
Areala

[miketheratguy]

The mechanic's been around longer than Suikoden. The first Dragon Warrior game, for instance, had the Fairy Water item which kept lower-level monsters away from you in the overworld for X number of steps. It didn't work in caves or dungeon areas, but it was nice if you needed to run and restock your keys at Rimuldar and didn't want to waste time fighting every Red Slime and Drakkee between there and Tantegel Castle.

Final Fantasy VI had a relic called the Moogle Charm which greatly decreased the enemy encounter rate if Mog was equipped with it and lead the party. It didn't stop 100% of random battles, but it took care of enough of them to save you time if you had a lot of hiking to do through weaker areas or across the Veldt.

*huggles*

Areala

I recall the Moogle Charm and had actually thought of mentioning it before remembering (apparently incorrectly) that it stopped all battles, not just the pesky lower-level ones. Same with the Dragon Warrior Fair Water, which I thought only lessened your overall chances of encounters rather than preventing annoying and potentially disease-ridden slime confrontations.

[Areala]

I recall the Moogle Charm and had actually thought of mentioning it before remembering (apparently incorrectly) that it stopped all battles, not just the pesky lower-level ones. Same with the Dragon Warrior Fair Water, which I thought only lessened your overall chances of encounters rather than preventing annoying and potentially disease-ridden slime confrontations.

I just realized I made a mistake here. The Moogle Charm does prevent 100% of all random encounters. I was confusing it with the Charm Bangle which doesn't prevent all random battles, just a good chunk of them.

*huggles*

Areala

[kitsunebi]

Same with the Dragon Warrior Fair Water, which I thought only lessened your overall chances of encounters rather than preventing annoying and potentially disease-ridden slime confrontations.

IIRC, fairy water/holy water stops all random encounters with weaker enemies, but only for a relatively short time. Considering you probably only ever have enough free inventory slots for one or two bottles, it isn't particularly useful. The Repel spell has the same effect, however, if you don't mind wasting your MP.

[Areala]

I'd have had more room in my inventory if I'd known the stupid Dragon Scale did nothing at all...

*huggles*
Areala

[miketheratguy]

I just realized I made a mistake here. The Moogle Charm does prevent 100% of all random encounters. I was confusing it with the Charm Bangle which doesn't prevent all random battles, just a good chunk of them.

*huggles*

Areala

Ah okay, it's good to know that I wasn't going insane. I can see how easily both of the items could be confused, given the similarity of their names.

IIRC, fairy water/holy water stops all random encounters with weaker enemies, but only for a relatively short time. Considering you probably only ever have enough free inventory slots for one or two bottles, it isn't particularly useful. The Repel spell has the same effect, however, if you don't mind wasting your MP.

Man, I can't believe some of the stuff you guys remember. I guess it depends on the game. I haven't played Dragon Warrior since....well probably since not long after I got my free copy from Nintendo Power. I should revisit that one sometime.

[kitsunebi]

"I'd have had more room in my inventory if I'd known the stupid Dragon Scale did nothing at all..."

I thought it gave a tiny defense increase? Which in practical terms is pretty much nothing at all, but...

[Areala]

"I'd have had more room in my inventory if I'd known the stupid Dragon Scale did nothing at all..."

I thought it gave a tiny defense increase? Which in practical terms is pretty much nothing at all, but...

I could have sworn I read the scale was glitched, but I think I'm confusing it with something else in another game. The Dragon's Scale does work as described (+2 defense), and what's better is once you've used it, you can sell it and keep the defensive bonus. Maybe that's what I was thinking about: not knowing you could sell it and still keep the bonus. I think the Fighter's Ring is the same too...find it, use it, then sell it and keep the agility bump. Heck, that's two free inventory slots right there!

*huggles*

Areala

[kitsunebi]

Did not know that.

Of course, I've already played Dragon Warrior I on the NES and Game Boy Color, as well as the SNES Dragon Quest I. I doubt I'll ever have a need to play it again.

...he says NOW...