Console Wars

[Data]

Possibly the only thing to get me to buy a Microsoft console is Cuphead. If it ever comes out. I've never owned one. I can't justify two consoles like the PS4 and the One that largely have the same games. Exclusive FPS games are not going to sway me. But significant VR might. Like if whatever Scorpio does with hololens is super good, I might buy my first Microsoft console.

 

Don't let japanese people see that game.  They'll want an Xbox.  Some of those Indie games are on the level of Nintendo's best.  In the case of Cuphead, it looks like Disney's best.

 

If the timing is right when MS Scorpio is released, and wireless VR is available, this will make MS profitable I bet.

[kitsunebi]

"Microsoft is a non-starter in Japan, but will definitely be competitive in western countries, their main opposition being Sony.  For Microsoft to really pull ahead and put Sony squarely in second place, though, Nintendo really needs to succeed in Japan."

 

Can you elaborate?

 

Err...I already did.  That's what the rest of the post was about.  If Nintendo continues to succeed in taking developers away from Sony's camp, the Playstation games coming out of Japan will be more or less the same type of games already being released in the west.  Right now Sony's biggest advantage over Microsoft is its close ties to Japanese developers providing different types of games than what the western developers are making for Xbox.  If that goes away (making the Playstation games being released even more similar/identical to Xbox games than they already are), then Microsoft won't have to worry about the fact that they're never going to have much support from Japanese developers, since all the quirky/interesting/innovative Japanese games will be exclusive to Nintendo systems, and power gamers can decide on whether to buy a Sony or Microsoft system based solely on which one can render blockbuster games like Final Fantasy 16 or whatever at the highest resolution.

 

Or to make a long story short, the way I see it, if Nintendo succeeds, it will hurt Sony but help Microsoft.

 

 

On a related note.  99 Xbox One units sold in Japan in the month of November.  For what MS pays to keep servers running, they should just give up. ?

 

I saw that list.  They also sold 1 Xbox 360 in the same time period.  How embarrassing for that one guy.  They should put his picture up on posters mocking him for being the only person in the country to buy a 360 that month.

[Data]

I'm sorry this is foreign to me.   This makes sense if it were true but,

you're saying Nintendo is taking developers from Sony to make for 3DS?

I can't find any evidence of this.

I comfortably say, "all worthwile 3DS games are Nintendo's or they are ports from older series with a few indie titles".

[kitsunebi]

You have to keep in mind how very few Japanese titles are ever released in America.  Almost all of the best selling games in Japan are portable, and many of them never make it to the US (during the most current sales period, 21 out of the top 30 best selling games are portable).  So it will be hard to see from the American side of things, since most of the smaller-tier games being snapped up aren't ever going to be released outside of Japan anyway.  But the point is that it improves Nintendo's standing in Japan with Japanese gamers and developers.  Microsoft isn't even in the running here, so any shift in the balance of power in Japan is between Sony and Nintendo only.  The stronger the support Nintendo gets, the less Sony gets.  That could have a trickle-down effect eventually making itself felt in the foreign markets as well, though it isn't something that will be obvious, since all the triple-A titles that are already famous in the West will still be released there (no danger of Metal Gear/Resident Evil/Final Fantasy etc going anywhere).

[Sean697]

Look at square Enix, there a pushing a lot of future titles onto the Switch like dragon quest. And pushing stuff to 3DS. They still have their bets hedged onto Sony but there are a lot of high profile stuff coming to Switch. You can bet Monster Hunters. Atlush will probrably feature a lot of their stuff on the Switch as well. Yes Persona 5 will be PS4, but don't be surprised to see that on Switch as well. As well as dragging any popular stuff from Vita as well.

[Sternosaur]

Oh, absolutely.  When I said portable game systems, I wasn't talking about smartphones.  It's totally acceptable to play a game on a smartphone.  But you aren't gonna see many people over the age of 13 playing a 3DS or Vita on a train, even in Japan, so the comment about playing on the commute to work doesn't apply.

Okay, but we've never had a console/handheld hybrid like this before, ever.  I can't tell you how many times I started playing a game on the console game just to have to go somewhere else and be like "awwwh man, guess I'll just play my handheld or smart phone" now I can finally play a game from start to finish whether I'm at home, or on the go.  This console will be life changing for me.

[kitsunebi]

Okay, but we've never had a console/handheld hybrid like this before, ever.  I can't tell you how many times I started playing a game on the console game just to have to go somewhere else and be like "awwwh man, guess I'll just play my handheld or smart phone" now I can finally play a game from start to finish whether I'm at home, or on the go.  This console will be life changing for me.

 

I can't think of a single time that's applied to me in my adult life, but I agree it would have been amazing as a kid.  Nowadays when I go somewhere, I'm driving, and when I get to where I'm going I'm too busy doing what I came for to think about playing games.  But as a kid with no responsibilities getting chauffeured everywhere by my parents, I could have just kept playing Mario 3 instead of switching to Super Mario Land.  Sadly, the idea is 25 years too late for me.

[Sternosaur]

I can't think of a single time that's applied to me in my adult life, but I agree it would have been amazing as a kid.  Nowadays when I go somewhere, I'm driving, and when I get to where I'm going I'm too busy doing what I came for to think about playing games.  But as a kid with no responsibilities getting chauffeured everywhere by my parents, I could have just kept playing Mario 3 instead of switching to Super Mario Land.  Sadly, the idea is 25 years too late for me.

Yeah I guess that's true, I guess it's different for me since I have time to kill inbetween classes at college so for me this means taking my switch to school while waiting for class and since I live in the city I'm better off staying at college for an additional 2 hours for traffic to die down, do homework, and play the Nintendo Switch while waiting.  I have disability and the post 9/11 GI Bill so college for me basically is part of my income haha but for those who take public transportation or waiting for a flight, or even if you're just going over to a buddy's place, it's going to have two controllers at all times for local multiplayer, so idk I just hope it does well and succeeds.

[kitsunebi]

Yeah I guess that's true, I guess it's different for me since I have time to kill inbetween classes at college so for me this means taking my switch to school while waiting for class and since I live in the city I'm better off staying at college for an additional 2 hours for traffic to die down, do homework, and play the Nintendo Switch while waiting.  I have disability and the post 9/11 GI Bill so college for me basically is part of my income haha but for those who take public transportation or waiting for a flight, or even if you're just going over to a buddy's place, it's going to have two controllers at all times for local multiplayer, so idk I just hope it does well and succeeds.

 

The weirdest thing about the Switch commercial to me was how it seemed to be aimed entirely at adults.  Granted, there are adults such as yourself for which such functionality is desirable, but I feel that kids should be their primary target audience.  And what would be wrong with focusing their ads that way?  Look back on the game commercials of our childhoods.  Would we have thought Nintendo/Sega was nearly as cool if all of their ads featured people who looked like our parents playing the games?

Granted, there are a lot more games out there these days that are inappropriate for children, but kids are still probably the largest user base out there, and there's more and more of them every year.

[Data]

I saw that list.  They also sold 1 Xbox 360 in the same time period.  How embarrassing for that one guy.  They should put his picture up on posters mocking him for being the only person in the country to buy a 360 that month.

 

And there's the mentality in Japan right there.   All kidding aside, the person who bought the Xbox was likely looked upon as popular.  So maybe you need to have above average confidence.  Such as this "guy".

 

 

The weirdest thing about the Switch commercial to me was how it seemed to be aimed entirely at adults.  Granted, there are adults such as yourself for which such functionality is desirable, but I feel that kids should be their primary target audience.  And what would be wrong with focusing their ads that way?  Look back on the game commercials of our childhoods.  Would we have thought Nintendo/Sega was nearly as cool if all of their ads featured people who looked like our parents playing the games?

Granted, there are a lot more games out there these days that are inappropriate for children, but kids are still probably the largest user base out there, and there's more and more of them every year.

 

The thing is, they want to portray someone mature with good looks, and a healthy physique to be playing Nintendo.  They know that children watch tv and no matter how virtuous the characters are on tv, they are also independant  younger people automatically want to be that too.

Teenagers may also identify too, but as adults, they could likely find out on their own whether this is what they really want.

[te72]

You know, I was gonna upgrade the PC (it is ten years old, aside from the main drive and ram), and thought about picking up a PS4, but man, you guys have SOLD me on the Switch. I think I'm gonna blow all that upgrade money on about six of the fancy Nintendos... need one for the bathroom, ya know.

[Data]

You know, I was gonna upgrade the PC (it is ten years old, aside from the main drive and ram), and thought about picking up a PS4, but man, you guys have SOLD me on the Switch. I think I'm gonna blow all that upgrade money on about six of the fancy Nintendos... need one for the bathroom, ya know.

 

Let us know what game you buy for it.

[te72]

Was sarcasm bud. I haven't bought a game since Gran Turismo 6 came out back in... 2013, I think it was. Not exactly the target audience for cutting edge systems like I might have been 20 years ago.

 

It's funny, I quit buying games when they first came out, simply because it got to a point that I couldn't afford to do so. Perhaps I should say that I decided to put my expendable income into other hobbies, and eventually more adult pursuits such as a house. Yet I still play games, and wouldn't you know it, even a game that is many years old, on dated hardware, can still be a delightful experience.

[Data]

First off, for me to truly appreciate any improvements in graphic capability of ANY system, I would first need to upgrade my TV. Traditionally I've upgraded every 6 years, which gives me a nice per year cost versus technology improvement ratio. However, I've had the current TV since mid-2009, and keep in mind that I can't afford top shelf $8000 TV's, I tend to keep in the $1000-2000 range as budget allows. Only reason I'm holding off, for now, is that the current Sony I rather like, and I'm waiting for OLED in a large size (thinking 55"+ for the main room) to fall somewhere in my typical budget.

LG is the only manufacturer of OLED right now unfortunately.  LG 55b6p is going for $2000 US right now.  I'd buy it myself if I was gainfully employed.

One thing is for sure, Im buying a 4K this summer.  It may not be an OLED.

 

The power game is a sham. The GameCube was more powerful than the PS2 but that didn't help Nintendo beat Sony. Nintendo has largely ignored the powergame and instead gone for innovative features with their hardware to make them interesting. Which is fine by me. So I'll tend to have one Nintendo console and whatever the most powerful alternate game console is. I have a PS4 (Now a Pro) and a Wii U. I'll surely upgrade to the Switch. PC gaming is never as good as console gaming. Though I have a gaming PC. I've found that FPS games are superior on those platforms, the are inconvenient and convoluted for console genres. (I'd say strategy stuff and war games superior on PC as well.)

 

Nintendo is one of the originators of stubbornness and arrogance.

Starting with the NES, if third party developers wanted to produce games for the NES, they were forced into strenuous terms such as;

-Becoming obligated to develop exclusively for Nintendo for a period

-Had to order at least 10,000 cartridges, pay in full and take the loss if they didn't sell

The FCC in the United States had to step in and stop these practices but let Nintendo off with a slap on the wrist.

If developers were allowed to make games for Master System, TurboGrafx, Commodore and Genesis, I would have to guess that things would be different.

How much? No way to tell, but I would guess Super Nintendo would have come out sooner.

 

Nintendo went with a cartridge for N64 because of sheer arrogance.  Everyone at the time was embracing optical media but Nintendo had to be different.  They did however introduce the first analog stick to a home console and the N64 did have a more powerful processor but ultimately got decimated by Sony.  

 

The Gamecube was more powerful because at the time IBM's Power PC arcitecture could stuff more power per square inch than a PC could.  The mini disk killed it, just like Dreamcast having a 1 GB GD.

 

The Wii had gimicky controllers that everyone adored at first and the console was cheap and only got cheaper.  Mainstream began to grow apart as they realized it was too much work to make it run on the Wii and eventually it became a door stop.  It was far too weak to put AAA games on and then the same thing happened with WiiU. 

Mainstream talking.  We want more power. 

 

I just want to chime in and say that despite the popular notion espoused above, I almost never see teenagers or adults playing portable game systems on public transport in Japan. Children, yes, but despite what people in America might think, older gamers keep their secret shame hidden for the most part lol. Part of why the DS/3DS are so successful isn't so much that they appeal to all ages, it's that nearly every single child of both sexes between the ages of 5 and 14 in the entire country owns one. Seriously. I can ask a classroom of 30 kids how many of them own a pet and get about 5 hands raised. Ask how many own a 3DS and I will get between 27-30 hands raised.

 

If they are like me, they buy a DS or 3DS and play it for a month then let it collect dust.

 

Was sarcasm bud. I haven't bought a game since Gran Turismo 6 came out back in... 2013, I think it was. Not exactly the target audience for cutting edge systems like I might have been 20 years ago.

 

It's funny, I quit buying games when they first came out, simply because it got to a point that I couldn't afford to do so. Perhaps I should say that I decided to put my expendable income into other hobbies, and eventually more adult pursuits such as a house. Yet I still play games, and wouldn't you know it, even a game that is many years old, on dated hardware, can still be a delightful experience.

 

AMD is back and they are hitting HARD.  They fell behind an entire node size on their cpu because they don't have their own manufacturer like Intel does.  Intel has been getting lazy.  Not much difference between 2017 stuff and late 2014 stuff.

Long story short, $250 AMD CPUs will be keeping up with Intel's 2016 I7 6700K which is enough to run any gaming rig.  You could probably get stingy if you wanted.

When AMD RX480 came out, Nvidia released their GTX1060 to beat it by a 4-5 fps for only $30 more.

4 months later and because AMD is so poor, they finally updated their drivers and all Graphics cards saw massive gains.

The 480 now beats 1060 by 12 frames for only $30 less.

The 480 can run any computer game at 1080 60fps with everything cranked as well as many other titles at 1440P

The 470 comes awful close to running all at 1080 and it is only $180

[te72]

Nintendo was always a bit of an innovator. Look at their controllers, for example. Aside from the GC not really bringing anything "new" (aside from being the most comfortable controller to date) to the table, all their controllers have shaken things up a bit compared to their contemporary competitors. As someone who worked for Blockbuster during the PS2 era, I can say with confidence that I loved those little GC discs. They were nearly indestructible compared to the CD / DVD formats that PS2 and Xbox used, and from a durability perspective, few discs will see the sort of abuse a rented game did.

 

As for all the computer talk there bud, you might as well be speaking Latin to me. I understand a very tiny amount, but not enough to have a conversation. Glad that OLED is starting to become more affordable, hopefully other manufacturers will start developing their own displays so it becomes the common tech.

[Data]

You're right, the strongest graphics are generally what will sell best to Americans (the 8 bit era being the exception).  Which is why Microsoft would be wise to ensure that they have the strongest graphics.  Nintendo isn't trying to be #1 in America, though, so having the best graphics is not a priority for them, as such things aren't the determining factor of success in Japan.

 

At any rate, I agree that it seems very unlikely that Nintendo will outsell Microsoft or Sony in America.  As for who will win in Japan - Nintendo or Sony - that's a far more interesting debate, I think.

 

Simply put Japanese exceptionalism is why Japanese reject Microsoft like it's the plague.

First we need a brief history lesson.

The majority of the gene pools in China and southeast asia as well as Japan originated out of Afrika as homo sapiens about 60k years ago and none so far have indicated homo erectus genes.

During the last ice age approximately 15k years ago, Japan was connected to mainland China as well as Taiwan, Korea and what is now called Russia by land which is now submerged.  

Japan's first migrants came to Okinawa from China and Austronesia about 35K years ago.  The Ainu came from Siberia and settled in Hokkaido and Honshu about 15K years ago just before the water began to rise and the Jomon arrive during the Ice Age.

These classes of people and the belief that they are a special type of being has led to what is know as nihonjinron.

Nihonjinron more or less means Japan as a people and society really like to market itself as utterly unique and in a class of its own and still affects the country socially politically and is baked in to their culture.

Many Japanese unknowingly feel this superiority.  It can be obseved by these points.

1 The japanese race is uniquely isolated and have no affinity with any other race.

2 Isolation is due to the circumstances due to living on an island.

3 Grammatical structure and unique lexicon  Sapir-Whorf hypothesis "the structure of a language determines or greatly influences the modes of thought and behavior characteristic of the culture in which it is spoken. "

4 Japanese psychology is influenced by the language

5 Japanese social structure have different human associations women in the household vertical strategic management