Game Player's Nintendo Guides...dates/numbers incorrect?

[kitsunebi]

So...WHO LIKES MYSTERIES????!

What the heck is the deal with the early issues of this mag?

It looks like there are issues missing...but...that's impossible.  These mags are super common.  All of the ones pictured here are constant mainstays on eBay.  Yet according to the database, there's some sort of gap between Vol.1 No.3 and Vol.2 No.3.  At the very least, this suggests 2 missing issues (Vol.2 No.1 and Vol.2 No.2) but again, there is no evidence that these issues exist. 

Furthermore, we've got Vol.1 No.3 dated September 1988 and the following issue, Vol.2 No.3, is dated June/July 1989.  Supposing that there AREN'T any issues in-between these two, that's a 9 month gap.  Again, impossible.

Keep in mind, none of these issues are dated, so I don't know who chose what dates to list them as, but I'm going to have to assume they're inaccurate.

Let's look at the first issue listed, dated June 1988.  This seems highly unlikely.  We have 2 different covers for this magazine in our database scan, and both of them have a note on the cover that the issue should be displayed until January 17, 1989.  Highly doubtful that newsstands would have this mag on display for over 6 months.

Next we've got the 2nd issue listed above, dated August 1988.  This one has no dates on its cover, but it does reference a contest, which we discover on the interior pages has an entry deadline of June 30, 1989.  Not hard proof, but would a contest really have a 10 month lead-in time to the entry deadline?  Not freakin' likely.

These mags were clearly published later than the dates we've listed them as.  Many of the ads in the "Game Player's Buyer's Guide to Nintendo Games Vol. 1 No. 1 (August 1988)" issue (2nd listed above) are the same ads printed in Vol.2 No.3, the issue following the mysterious gap.  So I'm going to assume that this buyer's guide is actually one of the missing issues, possibly Vol.2 No.2.  Of course, this still leaves one issue unaccounted for.

Unless...

Vol.1 No.3 was printed twice under 2 different titles.  The first print was called "Game Player's Nintendo Strategy Guide Vol.1 No.3" and then it was reprinted with a new title: "Game Player's Strategy Guide to Nintendo Games Vol.1 No.3."  So even though it's the same mag with a different title on the cover, perhaps the second release was also considered to be Vol.2 No.1, despite what's on the cover?

SO MUCH CONFUSION

Anybody have any other theories?

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by kitsunebi

[Areala]

One of the problems with our Game Player's section is that we have at least two if not more different publications all lumped under the same category. The other problem is with the many different-yet-similar titles Game Player's published over their years of operation.

The first mag to carry the Game Players moniker was "Game Player's Nintendo Buyer's Guide". This is a separate publication from "Game Player's Nintendo Strategy Guide", but they were in print at the same time. "Buyer's Guide" was published twice a year, while "Nintendo Strategy Guide" was published quarterly. But then, around the spring of 1989, the two magazines merged into one just called "Game Player's Strategy Guide to Nintendo." To add further confusion, the final issue of "Nintendo Buyer's Guide" (what would have been the fourth issue of that series) was published under that name, but apparently counted as an issue of "Strategy Guide to Nintendo" in their Volume/Number scheme.

There's more fun stuff to learn via Mag Weasel's article for GameSetWatch from back in 2006, which can be read in its archived state here:

https://web.archive.org/web/20061019043549/http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2006/07/column_game_mag_weaseling_unra.php

So it looks like, at a bare minimum, we've got some re-sorting and updating of the database to work on with regards to the old GP titles.

*huggles*
Areala

[kitsunebi]

That article isn't very helpful other than that it acknowledges that there were some name changes confusing the issue, and the buyer's guides were conflated with the strategy guides.  The article is possibly even part of the problem if someone referred to it when inventing the dates we've attributed to the issues in our database, since it identifies the first buyer's guide as from "early summer 1988."  This is the issue I mentioned above that says it should be displayed until January 17, 1989.  Early summer 1988 (or June 1988, as we have it labeled) CAN'T be right.

Again,

There is a Vol.1 No.3, suggesting 3 issues of vol.1

There is a Vol.2 No.3, suggesting 3 issues of vol.2 (up to that point)

That's 6 issues.

Yet have only 5 issues listed up to that point.

There are NO MISSING ISSUES in our database for these early issues.  What you see in the above pic is all there is.

So there are DEFINITELY only 5 issues, yet according to the Vol./No. system, there are 6.  This means something must have been counted twice, or the publisher $%#@ed up.

ALSO, our dates MUST be incorrect.  All we can really do is give it our best guess, but based on display dates and deadline dates within the issues, our dates are certainly incorrect.

[Areala]

If we assume the article is correct in saying that one of the Buyer's Guides got lumped in with the numbering system for another publication, is it possible that is the 'missing' issue we're looking for, since it would have been printed as one thing but numbered internally by Signal as something else? Otherwise, yeah, at least some of our dates have to be inaccurate on those earlier publications. There's just no way to square a 1989 'display until' date with a mid-1988 publication date.

*huggles*
Areala

[kitsunebi]

Oh no, I'm assuming that ALL of the Buyer's Guides ultimately got lumped into the Game Player's Strategy Guides title.  But that STILL leaves one issue unaccounted for, which is why I wonder if they're counting this one as two different issues:

[kitsunebi]

Here's more (un?)helpful information.  Coming from Game Player's Nintendo Buyer's Guide Vol.1 No.1 (which we have currently erroneously dated "June 1988," perhaps because that clearly incorrect date was used in the GameSetWatch article:

This is more evidence that the issue in question was likely published sometime in the fall of 1988, not early summer, as they are taking orders for publications shipping in winter 1988 and spring 1989.

But what the hell are those publications they're selling???  Neither of those PC game magazines exist, at least not under those exact titles.  So possibly the other 2 are just general non-specific titles for upcoming issues as well.

I actually think I may have figured it all out so far as issue numbers are concerned, but I'll have to wait till I have more time to put together a post illustrating my case.  Dates, however, are always going to be guesswork, though I think we can definitely guess a lot more accurately than what we have currently.  More later...

[kitsunebi]

Hmm...better strap in folks.  This post is gonna be long, and where we're going, there are no roads, so it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

Let's work our way backwards, starting with the very first issue we KNOW is correct, as it's the first one to print a publication date (on the editor's page):

Working backwards, neither Vol.2 No.4 nor Vol.2 No.3 have a date printed anywhere, but they DO both say that the mag is published bimonthly (as does the following Vol.2 No.5), so we can assume that our dates on these are correct as well:

And now we come to the tricky part.  There are no issues labeled Vol.2 No.1 or Vol.2 No.2.  They don't exist.  Yet the publisher thinks they do.  The only explanation is that there are 2 issues being counted as Vol.2 No.1 and No.2, despite not being labeled as such.

So...what issues are they?

Let's look at the possibilities. Here are all known issues remaining:

 

Hmm... is that 4 issues...or 8?  Are any of these simply not part of the same series?  We've got 5 different titles here:

• The Game Player's Guide to Nintendo
• Game Player's Nintendo Buyer's Guide
• Game Player's Buyer's Guide to Nintendo Games
• Game Player's Nintendo Strategy Guide
• Game Player's Strategy Guide to Nintendo Games

 

Again, it might be best to work backwards...except...WAITAMINUTE...????

THIS is Vol.1 No.3:

 

And THIS is Vol.1 No.2:

 

Huh? Display Vol.1 No.2 until May 16, 1989, but display Vol.1 No.3 until March 14, 1989?  So issue 3 came out BEFORE issue 2???

You are traveling through another dimension, a dimension not only of sight and sound but of mind. A journey into a wondrous land whose boundaries are that of imagination. Your next stop, GP Publications!

 

The logical explanation is come to by considering the 8 different covers for the 4 magazines above.  Each one was printed twice, possibly even months apart from one another.  So perhaps one printing of issue 3 WAS printed before a second printing of issue 2.  The problem is...BOTH covers of Vol.1 No.3 have "display until March 14, 1989" printed on them.  Were both printings released at more or less the same time?  If so, perhaps this was when the alternate printings began, and GP then went back and reprinted the others as well.

The printing of Vol.1 No.2 under the title "Game Player's Strategy Guide to Nintendo Games" has no "display until" text, but since the other printing of this issue was released AFTER issue 3, we can assume that the printing without the "display until" text was released BEFORE issue 3.

That gives us this timeline:

So now, if we're counting correctly, we've got all issues accounted for, if we assume that GP counted the reprints internally as part of the series, making the above issues Vol.1 No.2, Vol.1 No.3, Vol.2 No.1, and Vol.2 No.2.

That leaves just Vol.1 No.1.  Most everyone agrees that it's this:

Except waitaminute...isn't that 2 different printings? Why wouldn't it be counted twice if the above issues were counted twice?  Err....

Well, both editions of Vol.1 No.1 say to "display until January 17, 1989."  So they were likely published near the same time.  My guess is that the version on the right was released first.  I can't tell if the white sticker-looking thing claiming that the mag is "NOT affiliated with Nintendo" is ACTUALLY a sticker or it it's printed on (can anyone confirm?), but it's clearly covering up the red starburst seen on the other cover.  This suggests to me a hasty move done for legal reasons, resulting in a less attractive cover, so possibly the redesign on the left was released shortly thereafter as a replacement, rather than a second printing like the alternates for the second and third issue.  So, both versions of issue 1 are still considered Vol.1 No.1 internally by GP.

That just leaves this guy here as the outlier, not part of the series at all:

This makes sense, as both versions are labeled Vol.1 No.1, as if they were the first issue in a distinct series.  Of course, another issue under the title "Game Player's Buyer's Guide to Nintendo Games" would be published as Vol.2 No.5 of the main series, but that's just GP Publications up to their usual confusing shenanigans.

 

So sure, I'm supposing and guessing, but supposing I'm supposing correctly, we've got the timeline down for all the issues of the main series.

...

...

...

Guess what I just saw.  From Vol.1 No.3:

So...uh, next came "Game Player's Guide: Nintendo Buyer's Guide Vol.2 No.3"?  (it doesn't exist)

Followed by "Game Player's Guide: Nintendo Strategy Quarterly Vol.2 No.2 (no mags with this title exist)

Followed by "Game Player's Guide" issue 1 (do they mean "Game Player's" magazine?)

...

...

...

Eh, I still think I'm gonna stick with my timeline:

Vol.1 No.1:

Vol.1 No.2, Vol.1 No.3, Vol.2 No.1, Vol.2 No.2:

Vol.2 No.3, Vol.2 No.4

Vol.2 No.5, Vol.2 No.6:

 And that's the first two (problematic volumes solved.)

Anybody disagree/have a better idea?

 

As for DATES......

Well, again, we KNOW this is correct:

and we can ASSUME these are correct:

So if my timeline is correct sticking with bimonthly dates (and assuming both versions of issue 3 were released arounf the same time due to their identical "display until" dates:

Vol.1 No.1 (Oct/Nov 1989) (display until Jan.17, 1989)

Vol.1 No.2 (Dec/Jan 1989) (no display date)

Vol.1 No.3 (Feb/March 1989) (display until Mar 17)

Vol.2 No.1 (reprint of Vol.1 No.3) (Feb/March 1989) (display until Mar 17)

Vol.2 No.2 (reprint of Vol.1 No.2) (April/May 1989) (display until May 16)

Vol.2 No.3 (June/July 1989)

Hmm...doesn't seem quite right.  The "display until Jan.17 1989" date seems more appropriate for issue 2 (which has no "display until" marking), yet there it is, printed on both editions of issue 1.  Well, when issue 1 was published, GP considered it a quarterly, so perhaps they intended it to be allowed to sit on bookshelves for a few months, thus the late "display by date."  Yet they quickly decided to move to a bimonthly schedule beginning with issue 2, which is why it was likely on shelves during the period they had originally considered to be the tail end of the first issue's shelf-life.

Sound plausible?

BUELLER?

 

Please, someone.  Your thoughts.  Changes need to be made to the database and lives are in the balance.  We're at the brink of Armageddon, and one wrong move will push us over the edge.  Don't let your reticence on the issue be responsible for the extinction of all mankind.

 

[dablais]

Very well done my friend!  Reading through this…really make me think that they made that thing complicated for no reason.  But based on the assumption you have made, to me it all make sense!  Good job!

[StrykerOfEnyo]

It seems that other people have put more thought into issue order than what the publisher themselves probably did back then. Great work finding out some of these details, I enjoyed that article. It's clear this company was new to publishing game magazines, and I don't think they knew themselves how to approach the industry back then. I imagine one person saying, "this is how we are going to number them," but then a higher-up says "no, we are going to release them like this," but then maybe not everything gets relabeled properly as they go to print. I agree with publisher error being very plausible, especially with multiple mags involved. I had a few of these issues years ago, they were some of the only vg-related items you could find on newsstands until GamePro launched content. I never liked the volume/number style of labeling magazines. I understand it's how things were done for decades, but it's not friendly to the consumer who usually just wants to know what month it came out so they can organize them at home. I prefer the standard issue numbers. Plus, some mags had a new volume at the start of a new year, while "number" would coincide with the month (January was number 1 and December was number 12). But some magazines would start whenever their first issue would launch, so sometimes Oct or Nov was number 12, and the new volume started with Nov or Dec. This drove me crazy, especially since some issues would not contain which MONTH they released anywhere in the issue (not even on the inside publishing info page).

Edited December 30, 2023 by StrykerOfEnyo

[kitsunebi]

I'm gonna adjust my dates one last time.

Vol.1 No.1 (Fall 1988) (display until Jan.17, 1989)

Vol.1 No.2 (Oct/Nov 1988) (no display date)

Vol.1 No.3 (Dec/Jan. 1989) (display until Mar 17)

Vol.2 No.1 (reprint of Vol.1 No.3) (Feb/March 1989) (display until Mar 17)

Vol.2 No.2 (reprint of Vol.1 No.2) (April/May 1989) (display until May 16)

Vol.2 No.3 (June/July 1989)

 

Vol.1 No.1 is identified as a quarterly on the publisher's page, so putting a season rather than a month is more accurate.

There are 2 versions of s Vol.1 No.2, and though I believe I'm correct in my earlier placement of which came first, they both indicate bimonthly status.  One literally says the mag is "published bimonthly", and the other offers subscriptions for "one year (6 issues)", so again, bimonthly.  As I said earlier, I think the mag was originally intended to be a quarterly, but GP was unprepared for the demand for the first issue.  As StrykerOfEnyo said, these mags were really the only thing available in stores at the time.  Nintendo Power was subscription and mail order only at first (at least, I certainly never saw any of its earliest issue in stores).  So GP quickly realized that they should publish bimonthly, rather than quarterly.

Vol.1 No.3 must be Dec/Jan, since GPs Volume/Number system works on the principle of a new volume starting every year.  By being December, it is still Vol.1.

 

There's perhaps still some uncertainty about Vol.1 No.3 and Vol.2 No.1 being essentially the same issue and having the same "display until date."  And I can only guess, really.  This was the first issue to be reprinted, followed by a reprint of issue 2.  The only explanation I have is that GP, in its rush to switch to a bimonthly schedule, was unprepared, and needed a breather space to get its staff and production in line.

Another possibility is that, as a small (located in North Carolina) and (I believe) relatively new publisher at the time, the issues in Vol.1 may have had somewhat poor national distribution, and Volume 2 was seen as something of a relaunch of the mag, with the reprints of issues 2 and 3 hitting some stores for the very first time.

 

Again, if anyone has any better theories, I'm happy to hear them.

[perfinpuz]

I remember getting these early issues from Toys R Us (Norfolk, VA) before they were ever available at bookstores. I remember 2 issues, both Vol 1, No 1 issued a couple months apart, but not the same. Then nothing for a few months. Toys R Us did not do returns on these early magazines, so they were available months or years later, hidden by the newer stuff up by the registers

[kitsunebi]

50 minutes ago, perfinpuz said:

I remember getting these early issues from Toys R Us (Norfolk, VA) before they were ever available at bookstores. I remember 2 issues, both Vol 1, No 1 issued a couple months apart, but not the same. Then nothing for a few months. Toys R Us did not do returns on these early magazines, so they were available months or years later, hidden by the newer stuff up by the registers

Yeah, these things were available for ages (that's why they're so common on eBay), and with the first several issues printed twice each, it allowed them even more time on the stands.  Not that there was any competition at the time - America was still getting over the effects of the Atari video game crash, so gaming mags didn't really exist.  But these issues hit right around the time that Nintendo fever swept the country, and everyone (including GP Publications) was suddenly scrambling to get some content on the stands.

There are only 2 issues marked Vol. No. 1 (granted, printed 4 times):

 

[shadsy]

Hey folks-- Phil here from the Video Game History Foundation. I wanted to share our thoughts on this because we spent a long time trying to figure out what the deal with Game Player's was. (Can't seem to embed images, forgive the raw links!)

Here's what we determined: the first four issues of Game Player's was a separate series referred to in their masthead as "Game Player's Guide." The focus of GPG switched back and forth every issue between Nintendo and MS-DOS. Here's all four, in order:

https://i.imgur.com/tKMj3s9.jpg

The dates and issue numbers line up for these. This is Volume 1, Numbers 1–4 of Game Player's Guide.

That first issue was reprinted a couple times as a result of Nintendo getting mad at Signal Research, but it was never given a new issue number. Those are all V1N1 of Game Player's Guide.

https://i.imgur.com/uoCEWaV.jpg

At this point, Game Player's was relaunched as three separate magazines: a Nintendo version, a PC version, and a non-branded Game Player's covering all platforms. All three of these magazines started over at Volume 1. Here are the first two issues of the relaunched Nintendo magazine: Volume 1, Numbers 1 and 2:

https://i.imgur.com/sJbAd5X.jpg

Here's where things get fun, and where we think the smoking gun is. On the next issue, somebody had a change of heart and realized that since they already printed Volume 1, the current run should be Volume 2. So the following issue (August/September 1989) the Nintendo magazine was renumbered Volume 2, Number 3, completely skipping Volume 2, Numbers 1 and 2:

https://i.imgur.com/7nHnbaW.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Ipg7Enp.jpg

The reprints of V1N1 and V1N2 are just reprints, similar to what they did with the very first issue of Game Player's. V2N1 and V2N2 simply don't exist! The PC version of Game Player's also abruptly switched to V2 around this time -- without any reprints -- meaning this was a decision they made to clean up their sloppy numbering.

From this point on, everything should make sense and the dates/numbers for Nintendo should line up. The other versions of Game Player's have their problems, but this is what happened with the Nintendo one. I don't envy how y'all have to categorize this, since technically speaking, those first four issues are considered a different magazine. But we spent a whole day sprawling all our issues of Game Player's out on the floor until we figured this out, and this is as close as it gets.

For reference, this is how we have them cataloged:

• Game Player's Guide, Winter 1988 – 1989
  • The Game Player's Guide to Nintendo, Volume 1, Number 1, Winter 1988
  • The Game Player's Guide to MS-DOS Computer Games, Volume 1, Number 2, December 1988/January 1989
  • Game Player's Nintendo Strategy Guide, Volume 1, Number 3, est. early 1989
  • Game Player's MS-DOS Strategy Guide, Volume 1, Number 4, February/March 1989
• Game Player's, Nintendo, early 1989 – May 1993
  • Game Player's Nintendo Buyer's Guide, Volume 1, Number 1, est. late 1988 – early 1989
  • Game Player's Nintendo Strategy Guide, Volume 1, Number 2, est. late 1988 – 1989
  • Game Player's Strategy Guide to Nintendo Games, Volume 2, Number 3, June/July 1989

[kitsunebi]

Assuming you're correct...I...think I don't care anymore.  Fixing the database to somehow be "correct" will ultimately just make it look even more broken and confusing.

So...hmm, lets' see, I know I used it somewhere earlier in this thread...ah, there it is.

I will add though, that there's a reprint of Vol.2 No.3 as well, since the cover you linked to featuring a "display by date" differs from the version I recently scanned, which has no such date anywhere.

 

On the bright side, there is SOME welcome news your information brings us:

• The Game Player's Guide to MS-DOS Computer Games Vol.1 No.2 and
• Game Player's MS-DOS Strategy Guide Vol.1 No.4

are the first two issues covering PC games. I had always assumed I was missing a couple of issues, and now I know I've got them all!

 

[shadsy]

Huh, interesting, I didn't catch that. I did check, and our copy of V2N3 does explicitly say inside that it's June/July 1989 (not August/September like I said, that was a mistake, can't seem to edit the post). That date is not in the version you scanned, so I'm not sure what order those were printed in. But I think that supports that idea that the missing V2N1 and V2N2 were not reprints (since there's more than 2 reprints) and are just missing issue numbers.

Whaaat a mess. I think the real takeaway is that Signal/GP were not thinking about people reading these 35 years in the future.

And yes, that's why PC is so weird! That's why we chose to do Game Player's Guide separately, because otherwise it would go:

• V1N2
• V1N4
• V1N1
• V2N2
• V2N3
• etc.

[kitsunebi]

Despite owning them as a kid, I now find most of Game Player's video game mags to be pretty tepid reads.  But as a proto-PC Gamer, I think a lot of their PC publications still hold up and are some of the only mags I still value in my collection. 

Still missing this one, though.  Anybody help a brother out?

[dablais]

Wow!!!!

[JHD]

As a former professional librarian, I love technical discussions like this! I have struggled many times this problem, especially when the library holds only a few scattered issues of a periodical or (as very often happens), the publisher itself makes a numbering error. 

 

Normally a volume consists of all of the issues published in a year, with the issues numbered sequentially therein; a volume can have from just 1 to 360+ issues (some daily newspapers used this numbering scheme). With irregular frequency publications, volumes may not be annual, but they are always sequential (e.g. Volume 1 is from 2015, volume 2 is from 2018 with nothing having been published in between). I have only ever seen whole numbers (numbered consecutively from Issue 1 to end of publication) with video game magazines. 

 

My only contribution concerns the dating of issues. Can we learn anything from the release dates of the games covered in the magazine?  I once encountered a British game magazine with no dates listed anywhere (cover, masthead, copyright). Almost all of the games reviewed had been released within a few months of each other, however. Thus I was able to make a best guess as to when that issue was published.  

[shadsy]

4 hours ago, JHD said:

My only contribution concerns the dating of issues. Can we learn anything from the release dates of the games covered in the magazine?  I once encountered a British game magazine with no dates listed anywhere (cover, masthead, copyright). Almost all of the games reviewed had been released within a few months of each other, however. Thus I was able to make a best guess as to when that issue was published.  

We can narrow it down to the quarter it was published, at least! When there's no sell-by date, we tried to base the date on, like you said, the games that were covered, but also the dates on the sweepstakes in the magazine and the copyright date in the masthead. That's where "est. late 1988 – early 1989" came from; since some of these early issues had a longer shelf life than 1-2 months, it's hard to tell exactly when this one was published apart from the turn of the year.