Cartridge Gaming

[thebigmoa]

From the dawn of the Console Age, All games were cartridge and the word "Loading" only applied to Computers like the C64 etc until the end of the 16 bit console era when the optical disk appeared. Nintendo stuck with the cartridge with the N64 and so did SNK with there Neo Geo cart system. Do you think load times should be apart of gaming or do they kill the experience.

Should the next generation of Consoles (PS4, SWES Super Wii Entertainment System, Xbox 1280 ) use or partially adapt cartridge technology (like Flash etc) to enhance loading times?

Personally I am sick of waiting for games to load. Whats your views?

Edited May 4, 2008 by thebigmoa

[meppi]

It might be nostalgia talking but I prefer cartridges without a shadow of a doubt.

Besides the whole loading subject, which goes without saying really, there's simply something that I find much more attractive about carts.

Just imaging buying you current generation games on NeoGeo style cartridges.

[E-Day]

With the size of games these days, there is no way cartridges will return. They are way too expensive compared to discs, and the bigger the game is, the more pricey the game will be. I mean, Neo-Geo games were a couple hundred bucks each because of the size of the games. The same game for the Neo-Geo CD was affordable.

Personally, I don't mind the load times. They aren't as long as they used to be with the Sega CD and PSone, at least not with the Wii. I don't know about the other systems. I admit there is something nice about buying a new cart (DS) compared to a disc, but discs are here to stay until everything is downloadable (which I hope is never). Carts will be relegated to handheld systems made by Nintendo, unless they decide to make the next system disc based.

[meppi]

Good point, and I do agree that we'll probably not going to see anyone return to carts anytime soon. At least not for home consoles.

On the other hand seeing as how ridiculously cheap SD cards and other memory devices are becoming, who knows what the future might hold.

We might even go back to something like the PC-Engine Hu-Cards sometime in the future.

But that will never happen with a Sony systems as they tend to use their formats to push their other busynesses as well.

I do hope that Nintendo sticks with cards for their next portable though.

Load times and portable gaming is not a good mix. Luckily we can put our PSP games on Memory sticks as well...

[xxdaznboixx]

The Nintendo DS uses cartridges and some of the games have 10 second load times, usually anything by EA but atleast its nowhere near as bad as what i hear PSP owners have to deal with.

[TheUpsetGamer]

I would not mind CD/DVD's if they did not break so easily. I hate paying 50 more dollars because on a few scratches has killed the game. Cartridges were better because they were more durable.

[masked mystery]

I think DVDs and Blu Ray discs, and who knows what lies beyond those, are the future for console games, assuming they don't go to digital distribution exclusively. The flash memory or whatever the DS uses will most likely be the format for future portable games because they can be simpler, and should focus on being able to play quickly.

[SHADOVV]

Actually at some point (Probably not next gen, but the gen after) we won't see any form of media at all!

The way things will work at this point is you will only buy the license to the game! (Which could be purchased online using your console or from a games store like Electronics Boutique) You will not actually have any part of the game on your system at all.

I will use Sony as an example here (As they are the ones that have talked about this in an issue of EGM)

What you will buy is essentially a box and controller

The games will only ever be on Sony's machines at there end

When you purchase a game it will be added to a list that your box has in a menu when you turn your console on!

When you choose a game the game will boot for you on Sony's puters and all the required info for picture, sound and controllers etc... would be sent to your box!

Before saying that this is a bad idea, think about the one major positive to this

You would in theory never have to upgrade to a next gen console again as when sony decide to upgrade there puters you would automatically be upgraded at the same time!

This would also wipe out piracy once and for all, meaning that developers get the money they work hard to earn (Possibly meaning that smaller publishers would start taking risks again

Anyway, that is my insight to this argument! What does everyone else think about this idea

[WaSTeD]

Actually at some point (Probably not next gen, but the gen after) we won't see any form of media at all!

The way things will work at this point is you will only buy the license to the game! (Which could be purchased online using your console or from a games store like Electronics Boutique) You will not actually have any part of the game on your system at all.

I will use Sony as an example here (As they are the ones that have talked about this in an issue of EGM)

What you will buy is essentially a box and controller

The games will only ever be on Sony's machines at there end

When you purchase a game it will be added to a list that your box has in a menu when you turn your console on!

When you choose a game the game will boot for you on Sony's puters and all the required info for picture, sound and controllers etc... would be sent to your box!

Before saying that this is a bad idea, think about the one major positive to this

You would in theory never have to upgrade to a next gen console again as when sony decide to upgrade there puters you would automatically be upgraded at the same time!

This would also wipe out piracy once and for all, meaning that developers get the money they work hard to earn (Possibly meaning that smaller publishers would start taking risks again

Anyway, that is my insight to this argument! What does everyone else think about this idea

Sadly that is the future, digital distribution ala itunes. I will miss the touch and smell of my games. ( Yeah, old cartdriges smell great )

[SHADOVV]

Sadly that is the future, digital distribution ala itunes. I will miss the touch and smell of my games. ( Yeah, old cartdriges smell great )

Actually, what I speak of goes beyond digital distribution in the way you described it (itunes).

With itunes you still get a copy of the files sent to you to use as you see fit

The way I described your console would just add the game to a list of games you have available to play, but you would not receive a copy of the game itself physical/digital or otherwise.

[WaSTeD]

Actually, what I speak of goes beyond digital distribution in the way you described it (itunes).

With itunes you still get a copy of the files sent to you to use as you see fit

The way I described your console would just add the game to a list of games you have available to play, but you would not receive a copy of the game itself physical/digital or otherwise.

Ahm, even worse

Well, that method could be interesting for online renting and demos, but always with the possibility of buying a "material" copy.

[SHADOVV]

Ahm, even worse

Well, that method could be interesting for online renting and demos, but always with the possibility of buying a "material" copy.

OK, But what about the idea that you would never have to update you console again (in theory at least) or the fact it could also mean that publishers might be willing to take risks again

In my honest opinion these 2 positives really appeal to me a lot, I am a struggling full-time single father and can't afford to keep buying new consoles soon after they come out. As it stands I feel like this generation is really expensive considering that here in Australia a PS3 costs $700 or about $650 USD by they current exchange rate.

Then on top of that I would need a HDTV to go with it or my picture quality is nothing to care about and the Blu-ray movies are as good as useless

The GF8800 and the required PSU to run it looks a lot more appealing for me right now ($300 Australian)

Its just a pity that the PC games I see in shops don't appeal to me (The only games I ever see for PC that I do like are always ports of console games.)

Oh well, such is life

[Thor]

Yeah I prefer carts over CDs

[lisalover1]

Ever since I saw the PS3's "installation" screen, I knew that optical media had gone too far. Cartridges rock. End of story.

[WaSTeD]

OK, But what about the idea that you would never have to update you console again (in theory at least) or the fact it could also mean that publishers might be willing to take risks again

In my honest opinion these 2 positives really appeal to me a lot, I am a struggling full-time single father and can't afford to keep buying new consoles soon after they come out. As it stands I feel like this generation is really expensive considering that here in Australia a PS3 costs $700 or about $650 USD by they current exchange rate.

Then on top of that I would need a HDTV to go with it or my picture quality is nothing to care about and the Blu-ray movies are as good as useless

The GF8800 and the required PSU to run it looks a lot more appealing for me right now ($300 Australian)

Its just a pity that the PC games I see in shops don't appeal to me (The only games I ever see for PC that I do like are always ports of console games.)

Oh well, such is life

Well, im a PC player right now (I have a nice 8800). My newest console is a second hand XBOX, but i dont play it much. My favourites are the Saturn and the Megadrive at the moment.

I think im the only one who voted about don't giving a crap about the format

[john_ron168]

i want carts! the price of sd cards is going down maybe this will be the future of portable media

[WalkingTiger]

I personally find humor in the fact that in some games for most-often the PS3, these large "hard-drive installs" are the norm, which means that even though we have these new games on these huge storage mediums, in a way, the mentality of "cartridges" lives on, even though people don't realize it...

~WalkingTiger

[Backster]

With the sizes of today's games, I really doubt they will bring back the cartridges.

They were fine back in "the day" and should remain as the classics they are.

I seen a video about cartridges recently, and it brought back memories of blowing them out and cleaning with Q-Tip.

LOL

[crashblast23]

I don't really mind, probably in the next decade they will find something new. (From Cartridge to CD to ?)

[fan-off-on]

Look at the Nintendo 64, the games cost 70 dollars because there was so much technology needed for all the chips in the cart.

[Schloss Ritter]

I voted for option A and B. I want the capacity of discs with the loading speed of a cart. Yeah, in my dreams.

[akator]

Cartridges and hardware don't last forever. Even stored properly in the original box, my first ColecoVision was dead within 8 years because of board rot. Don't confuse longevity with availability -- hundreds of millions of cartridges and consoles have been sold in the last 30 years, so there are bound to be plenty of survivors. How many ColecoVisions and other old hardware died for every one that is still working now? I suspect it is higher that 10:1.

My experience with older NIB cartridges is that about 1/25 are DOA. None of the older NIB optical games I've purchased have been DOA.

I don't find optical media to be fragile, but I handle the disks by the center and edges. I have CDs that are over 25 years old, whereas the cassettes and floppy disks I had from the 80s are all degraded to be virtually useless.

Even in the early days of optical media, I had a hard time understanding what all the whining was about with loading times. A few seconds wait time between levels does not ruin my day. There are enough real world things for me to get upset about if I need something to piss me off.

That said, some developers are notorious for making games with extensive load times. EA comes to mind, regardless of the console generation or hardware. The PSP is a great example, with many complex games having short load times while others are ridiculous. If a puzzle game or arcade compilation has a 15-30 second load screen there is something wrong with the way the developer setup the disk. Currently most developer-publisher relationships demand the game get out the door quickly to recoup investment, often before the developer feels it is ready, which too often leaves a game unoptimized when it reaches the consumer. These "almost finished" games have longer loading times and more overall glitches with presentation and mechanics. You know what I'm talking about, I'm sure you've played at least a few of them over the last decade.

I agree that we're going to see the end of both cartridge and optical media for game delivery. The migration has started with the trend of "network-only" releases and will only escalate. As cheap as optical media is to produce, network delivery is even cheaper. Even better for the publishers, the end user will not have a permanent copy to go back and play years later. "Buy" a new download or "rent" it if you want to play it again. It's shaping up to be a grim future for collectors and nostalgia gamers.

[harrypmgaga]

Well look at the 360 now. They will be rolling out an update which will allow users to rip the game to their hard drive and play it off the HDD as long as the DVD is still in the drive to confirm that they own the disc.

I see that someone will hack the crap out of it and make it so you don't need the disc so anyone can just like rent a game and just rip it to their HDD. *sigh*

[E-Day]

The games will only ever be on Sony's machines at there end

When you purchase a game it will be added to a list that your box has in a menu when you turn your console on!

When you choose a game the game will boot for you on Sony's puters and all the required info for picture, sound and controllers etc... would be sent to your box!

Before saying that this is a bad idea, think about the one major positive to this

You would in theory never have to upgrade to a next gen console again as when sony decide to upgrade there puters you would automatically be upgraded at the same time!

Since when is hardware upgradeable by download? As far as I know, hardware can only be upgraded by replacing it.

And how lond would it take to download all the info needed to play a 40 gig game? Not to mention the fact that almost every ISP have a bandwidth cap where you pay per GB after you reach your limit.

It's a bad idea. The day everything is digital downloads is the day I lose interest in current generation games again. I like having tangible copies of my games. And you know they won't make purchasing game "licenses" any cheaper than it cost to buy the tangible copy now. So you would actually get less for the same money.

Very bad idea.

[harrypmgaga]

Since when is hardware upgradeable by download? As far as I know, hardware can only be upgraded by replacing it.

And how lond would it take to download all the info needed to play a 40 gig game? Not to mention the fact that almost every ISP have a bandwidth cap where you pay per GB after you reach your limit.

It's a bad idea. The day everything is digital downloads is the day I lose interest in current generation games again. I like having tangible copies of my games. And you know they won't make purchasing game "licenses" any cheaper than it cost to buy the tangible copy now. So you would actually get less for the same money.

Very bad idea.

Very true, while I have a 21GB limit, I get speed capped when I go over it. This month, for example I havge gone over and had to buy a top-up to keep my internet at a speed that won't pull my hairs out. $30 AUD for just 5GB more.

I can't imaging even downloading a game more than 5 GB. Even on my DSL2++ speed, it would take at least half a day.

Adrian.