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[zttfan]

Because I feel this topic extremely important!

I could not agree 100% more with all of dstryr420's previous comments.

Here are four more points to add:

1. Phillyman is not some stuck up admin with no interest in the opinions of others. We've been chatting back and forth in the short time that I've been here and at no point did I ever feel I was pressured to scan in anything specific. Even though he's taken the bold step of doing something I'd thought about doing a while back and is quite serious about it, he's never come across (to me at least) like someone who was obsessed with a singular vision and there was no room for input from others. I don't know about the rest of you but it's not often that you can directly chat with the creator of a site you're enjoying.

2. Lets all keep in mind that none of this is free. I'm not talking about buying books or scanners or even the time it takes to scan, crop and create a book, I'm referring to this forum. Topics, Arcade, Casino... you name it. Labors of love still require real world money to run them. Yet Phillyman hasn't stooped to such common online BULLS#!+ as "If you like our site then click here and vote for us!" banners all over the place or sent tons of spam to the accounts of those who've signed on. The most he wants from anyone is to simple scan some old mags that you may have enjoyed for years so that new people can enjoy them. Again no one's put a gun to my head and said do this or that specifically or else. It's been, hey Philly, I just scanned the Super Metroid guide, do you want it! Normal reply is generally heck yeah!

3. This may be the last of the great community projects the web ever sees. These days it all been done hasn't it. File sharing, podcasts. Hell even the ideas of forums, newsgroups and chat rooms has been somewhat subverted with sites like My Space.com and such. I've been online for more years than I'd care to admit and I've seen nice little ideas get turned into corporate whores (I'm staring at you Gamefaqs.com)!

This may be one of the last great ideas to hit the internet, certainly its one of the few I can think of that relies on its members to step up and do more than take. Some people here put a lot of their free time into something that yields no profit and I'm not just referring to scanners. Editors, seeders, admins, scanners. A lot more care goes into the creation of what you?re enjoying for free than you'll ever know if you choose not to step up.

4. Keep in mind there's only a five year limit on what can be scanned! What that means in simple English is that yes, Philly only wants books dated from before 2000. But that's only as of RIGHT NOW. That rule is only going to apply for another 9 and a half months. No one is asking that you find your old copy of Gamepro #2 or dig around for Marvel's Blip comics (I used to have 'em all, back in the day!). In my mind that's quite a generous range of potential mags or strategy books to be created. But I've also gone so far as to be proactive and have a few things scanned with a 2001 and up date simply waiting for the time they can be released to the public. If we assume that the modern age of gaming begins in 1988 when the NES hit its stride and the gameboy was soon to rule the world and we take that through the 16 bit and 32 bit era to 2000 that gives you approximately 13 years worth of content to look around for.

I'm sorry to be so long winded but as dstryr420 started it, blame him!

Again this place is growing more so than you might think and it?s up to you if you want to contribute or simply sit on the sidelines and watch. You're free to do what you want of course, just keep in mind that the sidelines aren't where the real action is at.

[Guest noseface]

I sure would like to download more Nintendo Powers. Unfortunately it seems they're being horded.

Want to kill this project? Sit on what you have to release. Imagine how useless MAME would be if the people who dumped roms only released them to their friends.

[Phillyman]

I sure would like to download more Nintendo Powers. Unfortunately it seems they're being horded.

Want to kill this project? Sit on what you have to release. Imagine how useless MAME would be if the people who dumped roms only released them to their friends.

We arent sitting on the releases.......scanning isnt too much of a problem .....but the editing of those scans is whats taking a long time ......I can now scan at the very least 1-2 mags a day.......but i dont want to release them until they have been edited properly

Compared to your analogy .....it would be like dumping the games but not writing an emulator to play them correctly

[dstryr420]

if you scan ten mags, you'll be a premier scanner, and have more access to the current works in progress etc, and you'll certainly held in higher regard if you request something or ask someone for something... check out our works in progress, or ask us whats going on to see what you can contribute.

ztt:

see? that wasnt longwinded!

[zttfan]

I sure would like to download more Nintendo Powers. Unfortunately it seems they're being horded.

Want to kill this project? Sit on what you have to release. Imagine how useless MAME would be if the people who dumped roms only released them to their friends.

Thank you for taking what I put some serious thought into and condensing it into a totally unrelated statement.

At no point did I threaten anyone with "hoarding" anything that I personally have scanned. That wasn't any part of the points I thought I'd made fairly clear.

But let?s remix it shall we: If you and others really want to kill this project then please, continue with you?re "I'd rather download than upload" attitude.

Again no threats and definitely no BS from yours truly. Simply a statement of fact.

As with all opinons on the web, the source always seems to be the wait and see type as opposed to the take charge type.

You?re free to do what you want so far as ZTTfan is concerned! I've got scans to create!

Changing the topic in typical ADD/ZTT style:

Phillyman, I've just completed a super cool S.W.A.T.P.R.O. issue that you may get tonight.

I'm just about done the Zelda guide and the Super Metroid book is now quarter way finished.

My next venture will either end up being Donkey Kong Country and or something that involves Street Fighter.

Which Street Fighter, I don't know yet but I'll figure it out.

Dstryr420 I promise I will learn from your example sooner or later!

[dstryr420]

which example you learning from? i hope its one of my better ones... lol

hey while you're talking players guides, i have the super game boy and killer instinct guides... im plannin on doin them when i can, so if you have them, hold off on them till i get my butt in gear again;)

[trancegemini]

May i ask why there the 5 year scan rule is in effect for 9 and a half months? at first i thought the rule was so nintendo would not sue sharing the newer issues but that cant be if its only in effect for 9 and a half months i like that after that we can collect the every magazine of nintendo power and have a complete collection:) Is it for 9 and a half months as that is how long it takes to scan them? Will the collection be complete before going on to another magazine? Thanks for the info also this is not a complaint just curious about the 9 and a half month thing.

[jeffjenx]

The original post was dated in February, so the 9 1/2 month thing was pertaining to the end of the year (2006), in which case another year would have passed and another year (2001) could be made publicly available.

[EggmanEEA]

Want to kill this project? Sit on what you have to release. Imagine how useless MAME would be if the people who dumped roms only released them to their friends.

Based on your totally inaccurate comment about MAME and roms, I shall quickly enlighten you to how MAMEDev works.

Dumping Arcade Boards:

1. person buys arcade board

2. person either dumps arcade board or sends to a person who has hardware to dump the roms/etc.

3. roms are verified numerous times and are usually dumped a few times to ensure correct crc

4. roms are sent to a repository where the developers of MAME have access to the "new" stuff, which they can then work on in their leisure (remember...its a free project and all work is done in their own spare time)

5. Is the game still available commercially? If not, its "ok" (its actually NOT, but don't get me started on copyright stuff). If it is, shelve it until its out of circulation and the manufacturer won't really step in and put the smackdown law on the whole project (ie. what most people then confuse as "hoarding")

6. the MAMEDev make a breakthrough and get the rom to "working" status, and it is added to a release build of the public version of MAME.

7. The rom is then "released" to the public and then people scoop it up and add it to their pile of roms.

Here's how I see RetroMags working:

1. person buys magazine

2. person either scans the mag or sends it to someone who can

3. mags scanned, cropped, made into cbr or pdf or whatever

4. 5 year rule...is it younger or older? If older, let's give it out publicly to everyone for free. If its younger, let's make sure we don't get sued by the owner of the mags and give them some "breathing room" of what we do.

Remember, what MAME and RetroMags both do is , in a court of law, AGAINST the law. You cannot reproduce any form of literature/game without the written consent of the author (in this case, Nintendo's publishing company). So, Phillyman is really taking a chance by doing any of this, and hopes to keep his nose off the grinding stone by giving that "breathing room" that some companies "seem to" live by of their works being digitally copied and spread around the world to others. Maybe it's their way of Public Relations for the poor who could never afford the mag or play the game in the first place.

My hats off to everyone who sticks their neck out for the good of the preservation aspect of the project, they see the real need to preserve, collect and enjoy whats important to them.

If you don't fancy waiting 5 years to read the current issue of a magazine thats on the newsstands, then go out and buy the damn thing yourself and stop your friggin' whining.

ps. phillyman, can I have an exemption to use foul language in the future?

[sssssss]

Based on your totally inaccurate comment about MAME and roms, I shall quickly enlighten you to how MAMEDev works.

Dumping Arcade Boards:

1. person buys arcade board

2. person either dumps arcade board or sends to a person who has hardware to dump the roms/etc.

3. roms are verified numerous times and are usually dumped a few times to ensure correct crc

4. roms are sent to a repository where the developers of MAME have access to the "new" stuff, which they can then work on in their leisure (remember...its a free project and all work is done in their own spare time)

5. Is the game still available commercially? If not, its "ok" (its actually NOT, but don't get me started on copyright stuff). If it is, shelve it until its out of circulation and the manufacturer won't really step in and put the smackdown law on the whole project (ie. what most people then confuse as "hoarding")

6. the MAMEDev make a breakthrough and get the rom to "working" status, and it is added to a release build of the public version of MAME.

7. The rom is then "released" to the public and then people scoop it up and add it to their pile of roms.

Here's how I see RetroMags working:

1. person buys magazine

2. person either scans the mag or sends it to someone who can

3. mags scanned, cropped, made into cbr or pdf or whatever

4. 5 year rule...is it younger or older? If older, let's give it out publicly to everyone for free. If its younger, let's make sure we don't get sued by the owner of the mags and give them some "breathing room" of what we do.

Remember, what MAME and RetroMags both do is , in a court of law, AGAINST the law. You cannot reproduce any form of literature/game without the written consent of the author (in this case, Nintendo's publishing company). So, Phillyman is really taking a chance by doing any of this, and hopes to keep his nose off the grinding stone by giving that "breathing room" that some companies "seem to" live by of their works being digitally copied and spread around the world to others. Maybe it's their way of Public Relations for the poor who could never afford the mag or play the game in the first place.

My hats off to everyone who sticks their neck out for the good of the preservation aspect of the project, they see the real need to preserve, collect and enjoy whats important to them.

If you don't fancy waiting 5 years to read the current issue of a magazine thats on the newsstands, then go out and buy the damn thing yourself and stop your friggin' whining.

ps. phillyman, can I have an exemption to use foul language in the future?

Thanks for clearing up that 5 year thing i was wondering about that myself. And thank you Phillyman for doing what you are doing to help avid fans see this stuff that they would not otherwise be able to see. And i agree this is really only for older stuff you cannot get your hands on now not new stuff you can go down and buy at the market.

[jbbdude]

i vote noseface out of this forum....

anyway, as for cost of the site, does this forum php code cost money? if so, then dude, have u been gypped! u can get tons of moddable forums for free!!! like, say a wiki, or phpbb2. THEY ARE FREE!!! This is NOT commercial use, this is... puclic domain sharing... yeah... lets not talk in the "legal sense" as i know a patent/IP attorney, this could get all involved in trouble.....

anyway, back to the point i (kind of) had... cost of bandwidth could be lessened (see my other thread)... if the arcade games/newsbot cost $$$, those could be easily replaced by free/open source products... (is this site open-source friendly? i think it should be... even though i don't have oppenoffice.org suite, linux, etc., i do view this site in firefox... look at ur data, ill betcha a lot of ppl do...)

this site could probably do with more store-based ads. like, for example, a adlink for lik-sang which can generate revenue, or 1 for ebgames... but, as i hope he never will, phillyman has nevr resorted to pop-ups, spam ads like "get a free ps3!", those site list vote things (which some sites require you click/vote on before entering the site!), etc etc. Or, you could work with another forum or group of vg collectors, hobbyists, emulator/homebrew designers... honestly, evry1 here is a MASSIVE technogeek. THere must be a way to lessen the cost-load to phillyman (who, by the way, i heard works for geek squad, owned by best buy, who are known to give OK salaries (philly, feel free to correct me if i b wrong)... though being a geek squader is a dream job of mine...)... anyway, just been thinking... yeah.

as per 5-years/"mag hoarding" policy... if u find a group of ppl who r on a "learning photoshop" site or some crap like that, their admins might take this on as a project for learners to work on, so 1 could scan em in and send in specs/requests to the learners to speed up editing...

for 5-years policy... legally, should be life copyright, which i belive is life+20yrs or something for a personal copyright or like 50 yrs or something for companies... don't know exactly... but 1 could argue for this case w/fair use. anyhow, find some indie magazine publishers and offer to scan their mags and edit if u can keep them and distribute scans through the site... would be legal... could EVEN get pre-print, as in, how the layout is MEANT to be printed!!! it is set by pc... don't know WHO EXACTLY to get... go to usenet or google gourps, maybe alt.literature.magazines.technology (if it exists) or something... or just google it...

i have a scanner and a... "copy" of photoshop, but i don't know photoshop well and the scanner doesn't work... ever at all... used to when hooked up to Windows ME IBM netvista... may be a bad usb 2.0 cable... sry i cant help * tear tear * (that's why i keep on posting! i can't help any way else... though i may have some 2001 NPs, and possibly obscure mags and guides like cube uk unofficial mag and a pokemon gold unofficial guide w/COMPLETE walkthrough of ENTIRE game, as well as 1 of pokemon hey u pikachu and team rocket card game (it was a VERY short-lived pokemon mag from back in the day by a now defunct publisher))

[jbbdude]

sry that post was so long and go toff-topic a LOT...