Changes To The 5 Year Rule!

[Phillyman]

Dear Retromags Community,

Back on June 25th 2005 when I first registered this website, I created the rule that we would not provide any scans that were not at least 5 years old. Back in 2005 that pushed us back to 2000, over the next few years that date crept forward. This issue has bugged me on and off for the past few weeks, can anything in 2004 be considered Retro? I think we have gotten to the point where the 5 year rule will no longer work. I have discussed this matter with my staff (Meppi, MBJ, Thor, kbf_private_joker, E-day, Triverse) and everyone agrees on this fact. The Playstation 2, Xbox and Gamecube are not Retro gaming consoles. So we decided to change the date of items we will accept, and again we all decided on 1999 as the cut off date. Please note that we are not changing the 5 year rule to a 10 year rule, but instead we are setting a straight cut off date of December 31st 1999. We realize that this creates a few issues, and we would like to address them here in this thread.

• Starting immediately, we will no longer accept submissions of magazines that were published after December 31st 1999
  
• Any magazines currently in the Download Section that are after the December 31st 1999 rule, will be removed soon
  
• Even though the magazines will be removed from the Download Section, the contributors of these submissions will keep there Statuses
  

At this point we have no plans to change this rule, but we will hold onto a copy of magazines already submitted in case we do push the date forward in the future. On the brighter side of things....changing our cut off date to 1999 does cut down the amount of work needed on certain projects.

Before

Nintendo Power 001-175

GamePro 001-125

EGM 001-174

Next Generation 001-085

PSM 001-080

After

Nintendo Power 001-127

GamePro 001-135

EGM 001-125

Next Generation 001-060

PSM 001- 028

Please post any questions, comments, concerns in this thread. Over the next day you will see a new category in the Download Section and contained within will be the items that will no longer be available in a couple of days.

-Phillyman

[KiwiArcader]

Holy cow!!! Better grab those PSM mags before they disappear then :-)

Seriously though .... I guess this action was inevitable considering the lifespan of the newer consoles is far, far longer than the older models due to advances in graphics/CPU horsepower etc. Look at the PS2 .... almost 10 years since its introduction. So magazines for these are hard to be called retro.

[DPsx7]

That mildly sucks. I was hoping to rid of mags now...

I know it's hard to visualize those consoles as retro, but since lifespans are longer it does throw you off. I mean 2000 was a good while ago. In PC terms that's ancient. Besides to me retro is Atari 2600 age or so. NES to DC is classic. Is there a good reason you want to remain that dated, or is it just to cut down on work and get the older stuff scanned? Mainly I ask because wouldn't it be easier to get these somewhat newer mags now before they become hard to find and expensive? You don't have to put them up right away if there's a copyright issue involved.

[meppi]

Well since I'm not longer around to post Prince pictures, I'll just say this:

Fire in the hole!

[E-Day]

That mildly sucks. I was hoping to rid of mags now...

I know it's hard to visualize those consoles as retro, but since lifespans are longer it does throw you off. I mean 2000 was a good while ago. In PC terms that's ancient. Besides to me retro is Atari 2600 age or so. NES to DC is classic. Is there a good reason you want to remain that dated, or is it just to cut down on work and get the older stuff scanned? Mainly I ask because wouldn't it be easier to get these somewhat newer mags now before they become hard to find and expensive? You don't have to put them up right away if there's a copyright issue involved.

To me, the whole idea about retro magazines is to read about the games and consoles you miss from years past. Putting up magazines talking about the PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox doesn't seem very retro, as the site name suggests, and next fall (2010), the Xbox 360 would be in that mix. Things that current are not retro. I personally don't consider the Saturn, N64 or PSone retro either, but they haven't been current for a long while now that they can actually be missed.

That's not to say that the scanned magazines will be deleted (they'll be removed for downloading, but as far as I know the scanned work will be kept for a later date), nor will people who have the print magazines get rid of them because of the new cut off date (hopefully they won't).

It is also a sort of goodwill gesture towards publishers that the site in no way intends to encroach on their business. No magazine currently offers back issues that are more than a few years old, and certainly none offer any from the 90's. So if the site doesn't step on any of their toes, they are more likely to look the other way than to hassle the site. Originally it was going to be a 10-year cut off date that moved up every year, but having a firm year as the cut off date seemed like a better idea.

The most important thing is that the old stuff is all still available

[RPG-Joe]

Mmm... I can see why you guys are doing this, but I´m not too sure if it´s a good idea. I mean, it isn´t easier just to try to scan as many magazines as possible? While the "newer" magazines are being scanned you can have more time to get the old and hard to find Issues.

Anyway, I always thought that "Retromags" was only the name of this site, but now I see you mean it. The bright side is that now the job is going to focus on scanning really old issues which I never had the chance to read, specially Electronic Games. Cool!

[DPsx7]

That's where it's open to interpretation. It says retromags, but is that the name or the goal? What I mean is do you just want to stay pre-2K, or be like MAME and collect anything you can for preservation sake? I totally understand about not putting pressure on businesses. Emulation holds back the newest stuff and of course you don't want any hassle by offering things too soon.

Guess we'll just have to see where this goes. The 10 year cutoff should work better as far as what is offered here, but as I said if you intend to catalog more down the road it might be wise to get 'em while they're available. Ya never know if another publisher will go under and their mags become rare and expensive.

[E-Day]

Mmm... I can see why you guys are doing this, but I�m not too sure if it�s a good idea. I mean, it isn�t easier just to try to scan as many magazines as possible? While the "newer" magazines are being scanned you can have more time to get the old and hard to find Issues.

Anyway, I always thought that "Retromags" was only the name of this site, but now I see you mean it. The bright side is that now the job is going to focus on scanning really old issues which I never had the chance to read, specially Electronic Games. Cool!

There are already a ton of the old magazines that people have in their possession that need scanning. So increasing the cutoff date won't alleviate most of the work

That's where it's open to interpretation. It says retromags, but is that the name or the goal? What I mean is do you just want to stay pre-2K, or be like MAME and collect anything you can for preservation sake? I totally understand about not putting pressure on businesses. Emulation holds back the newest stuff and of course you don't want any hassle by offering things too soon.

Guess we'll just have to see where this goes. The 10 year cutoff should work better as far as what is offered here, but as I said if you intend to catalog more down the road it might be wise to get 'em while they're available. Ya never know if another publisher will go under and their mags become rare and expensive.

The 1999 isn't written in stone forever. Eventually it will change, even if it won't be for a long while. And it shouldn't keep people from collecting the newer magazines for scanning even if they can't go up right away. Besides, all the most interesting stuff is from the 80s and 90s

[DPsx7]

The 1999 isn't written in stone forever. Eventually it will change, even if it won't be for a long while. And it shouldn't keep people from collecting the newer magazines for scanning even if they can't go up right away. Besides, all the most interesting stuff is from the 80s and 90s

I wouldn't imagine so, good to hear. As long as people can find room for the mags and keep them until needed.

[meppi]

E-Day had done a great job of explaining both side of the story, so I don't need to add much to it.

As far as we are concerned, Retromags is indeed more than just a nice name to pin on this project.

As mentioned before, in about a year time the 360 would be added to the list if we kept things going the way we did, which is just insane when you think about it.

How does scanning and releasing 360 magazines in the next couple of years be justified as preserving a piece of history that's being threatened?

It just doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Even the original Xbox, or the GameCube and PS2 for that matter don't fit into the retro category and will not do so for quite some time.

Hell, like E-Day yet again mentioned, there are plenty of people out there who don't consider the 32-bit generation retro at this point.

I'm not one of them though. And I even think of the DreamCast as somewhat of a retro console already, which would make those people freak out, I'm sure.

The GBA is another one which I would start to consider retro just about now.

But these are a whole other story. It probably has to do with the type of catalogue they had in their lifetime. One which leaned firmly onto the classic 32 and 16-bit generation as far as immediate gameplay are concerned.

I even have the complete set of both the UK official DreamCast magazine and the regular UK DreamCast magazine sitting right here, waiting for them to be scanned. But do I mind that it was decided to cut of the releases at 1999? Not at all. I'm a firm supporter for this stance.

That doesn't mean that I won't start scanning a couple of DC magazines anyway. Simply because I love to have a bit of diversity in the scans that I work on. But those releases will be filed away until the day comes that they will get their time to shine.

We will still be accepting donations of magazines that are from 2000 and beyond for people willing to part with them.

They will be stored away for safe keeping until they can be called upon again. That way we won't have to scour ebay to look for 15 year old magazines in mint condition.

As or the second part that played a big role in deciding to make the tough call and go with the 1999 rule, we all hope that it does indeed send a very clear signal to all the publishers. Letting them see that we are indeed true to our word, and we will not put their business or the jobs of their employees in any jeopardy.

In the end of the day that's what will keep all of us safe from having to defend ourselves against something that might rest on a misunderstanding.

We only want too keep their legacy alive since it's in serious danger of being lost. Just look how hard it can be to locate a specific issue of a magazine.

Some can be easily found, but others that were just as popular back in the day can be near impossible to track down.

Preserving those kinds of gaming magazines should be our top priority, and not a magazine that has just passed the old 5 year rule 2 days ago.

It might sound a bit harsh, but it's the only way to stay true to the name retromags, and to keep the original vision of the site alive.

[Thor]

Well since I'm not longer around to post Prince pictures, I'll just say this:

Fire in the hole!

Such a great movie

[DPsx7]

Would it be a easier to just move them to '2K stuff' category but not actually remove what you've added already? It sounds like people are making a mad rush to DL them and you've put in all that work to scan them. And whenever I decide to take a break from gaming I wanna scan through the collection you have. Dunno what percentage you have that's going to be cut.

[triverse]

Would it be a easier to just move them to '2K stuff' category but not actually remove what you've added already? It sounds like people are making a mad rush to DL them and you've put in all that work to scan them. And whenever I decide to take a break from gaming I wanna scan through the collection you have. Dunno what percentage you have that's going to be cut.

That, as meppi said to another post, would defeat the purpose. This is a gesture of goodwill to the publishers of the content in the first place that Retromags is not here to do harm to them but to preserve their past work.

If the issues were simply moved to a '2K' section that would seem to me like it is glorified that there are 2000 and newer issues available, please come download them rather than pay for them (as many magazines still have quite a bit of a backlog of issues they will sell you, most at cover price-contact them and ask about it).

[DPsx7]

Good point, it would seem to highlight them which you don't want. After the next issue arrives I figure these things are discarded by many people. So I can't say how publishers would feel about this or how far back they go with back-issues. Unlike games it's not as if they can remake the mag and sell it again, ya know? And with mags being less desired thanks to the internet who knows...

Have you ever been contacted by anyone about this site?

[triverse]

Good point, it would seem to highlight them which you don't want. After the next issue arrives I figure these things are discarded by many people. So I can't say how publishers would feel about this or how far back they go with back-issues. Unlike games it's not as if they can remake the mag and sell it again, ya know? And with mags being less desired thanks to the internet who knows...

Have you ever been contacted by anyone about this site?

I know that for awhile you could go back about 6 or 7 years with EGM (years ago, not sure about towards their end) with the oldest issues costing about $10 and the newer issues being sold for cover price. Others I know of, at least back in the day were Gamefan, you could go back about 5 years on some of their issues (of course it got spotty the farther back you went). Not all print it though, so if interested, you would have to contact them and find out (I think it mainly dealt with their distributor and how far back they had issues as most of the time you sent money to another company).

[E-Day]

Unlike games it's not as if they can remake the mag and sell it again, ya know? And with mags being less desired thanks to the internet who knows...

Why can't they? If they have a big enough demand for old back issues that would enable them to make a profit, why can't they reprint and resell old issues? Unlike the internet, the information in a magazine never disappears without warning. And some people still like reading magazines, both new and old; and some people like collecting magazines in print form

[DPsx7]

Why can't they? If they have a big enough demand for old back issues that would enable them to make a profit, why can't they reprint and resell old issues? Unlike the internet, the information in a magazine never disappears without warning. And some people still like reading magazines, both new and old; and some people like collecting magazines in print form

You think they'd do that? Besides a handful of people I don't know how many actually 'collect' magazines to the point they'd request old issues. I just never threw mine away. Mags take up a lot of room and most everything is stored online in multiple places these days. If it disappears it isn't gone for long.

[triverse]

Why can't they? If they have a big enough demand for old back issues that would enable them to make a profit, why can't they reprint and resell old issues? Unlike the internet, the information in a magazine never disappears without warning. And some people still like reading magazines, both new and old; and some people like collecting magazines in print form

This is a subject that is close to my heart. I have spent years trying to track down (and finally accomplishing it for the most part) various past magazine owners. E-Day knows what I mean, it is something that with a little work and the right sales pitch and smart marketing could work. With the right amount of care it could take off and be profitable, I mean, look at Koei, in the cartridge days, they had to be extremely careful with how many copies the ordered so as to stay afloat. This would definitely not be something most publishers would go for since obviously, you would go under quick by ordering a million copies at once (it would be awesome to have that many presales but hey, it is hopeful wishful thinking just getting a publisher to do anything like this in the first place).

Who here wouldn't jump at the chance to buy say, the first 12 issues of EGM in a nice hard cover book for say $50 or something? Then throw in extras like interviews and retrospective insights from the people that did it. Or just leave it as a straight reprint, either way, I am sure there would be at least a few people interested in it and willing to buy it.

[akator]

I am in full support of the site decision to focus on mags pre-2000/10 years or older. That doesn't change my opinion that this is still a great site that provides fun and worthwhile resources.

Sure, it would be cool if more mags did retrospectives that compiled past issues, and I'm sure plenty of people would buy them -- unfortunately, most of today's magazine publishers seem uninterested in using their old intellectual property.

Too bad we can't have everything we want, but Retromags makes up for a lot of what the publishers aren't interested in doing. We have to enjoy what we can, and I'm glad Retromags is here to provide the resources missing from the publishers themselves.

[aussie500]

While l would have liked to have seen the issues from 2000 included in the retromags collection l am fine with the decision. However l had thought we would have till February 27th to download those that were to be deleted, they seem to have vanished already could we please have a bit longer to download them.

[meppi]

While l would have liked to have seen the issues from 2000 included in the retromags collection l am fine with the decision. However l had thought we would have till February 27th to download those that were to be deleted, they seem to have vanished already could we please have a bit longer to download them.

Luckily I hadn't deleted it just yet. I was waiting for confirmation first as keeping them online for another month only serves to lengthen the transition period.

Not sure how long they will be left up, but I would say grab the ones you are interested in as soon as you can.

[KiwiArcader]

Yeah .... I wanted to get the PSM mags .... but none of the To Be Deleted issues are available in the directory. Sigh!!!

What you should do is set up a section for the Contributors who scan mags ONLY to have access, eg , paying members aren't even allowed access ... where Scanners can upload the new magazines so that you dont lose these over time but where they can also obtain a mag they dont have. Then you have a system that still benefits people making the effort while not compromising the site from a public perspective. The reason I like this is that most new issues are available elsewhere anyway but we make a bigger effort to clean our scans up so our quality is better IMHO and the scanners should be rewarded a little extra over everyone else for the efforts put into making the site what it is.

Just my opinion though ....

[BarbieOnWeed]

Retromags ARE for mags older than 10 years.

Anything newer than that, is not for me!

[aussie500]

Luckily I hadn't deleted it just yet. I was waiting for confirmation first as keeping them online for another month only serves to lengthen the transition period.

Not sure how long they will be left up, but I would say grab the ones you are interested in as soon as you can.

Thanks meppi.

[meppi]

What you should do is set up a section for the Contributors who scan mags ONLY to have access, eg , paying members aren't even allowed access ... where Scanners can upload the new magazines so that you dont lose these over time but where they can also obtain a mag they dont have. Then you have a system that still benefits people making the effort while not compromising the site from a public perspective. The reason I like this is that most new issues are available elsewhere anyway but we make a bigger effort to clean our scans up so our quality is better IMHO and the scanners should be rewarded a little extra over everyone else for the efforts put into making the site what it is.

There are so many things wrong with that.

What's the purpose of taking the stance that we will only be doing issues from before 2000 when in fact we would be flat out lying and keeping newer online for certain "privileged" members?

The only purpose that that would serve in my eyes is making us look like people who will do whatever we want, and say something else as long as it benefits us.

Our word would mean absolutely nothing anymore and we could just as well start releasing the very last issues of RetroGamer the same week they come out.

After all I subscribe to the magazine so why not just scan them as they come in, right?

Then we can all bitch and moan about yet another magazine going out of business and act like we had nothing to do with it.

The whole point of retromags is preserving classic magazines and the community is built upon the hard working members who put a big part of themselves into the work they do without asking for anything in return.

If we start making a distinction between who can download something and who can't then we are taking a path that will be the downfall of this community and I will have no part in that.

Whatever someone on some other site does has no bearing to the path we will take and the rules we will follow.

So if they have been releasing the monthly EGM issues, then they can be proud of themselves.

We at least can say with a clear conscience that we had no part in the downfall of the magazine, no matter how small.

And thanks to the new rules we make sure that we will never have any part in such practices.

So everything that you see will be available to everyone who visits the site.

And I give you my word, and I think that I can speak for the whole team on this as well that we will not be putting up hidden files of any kind, for people who somehow would be privileged to download them while others are not.