Retro Gaming And Hdtvs? No? I'd Say Hell Yes!

[meppi]

When the time came that I decided to finally get a HDTV, my main worry was that, since I'm first and foremost a retro gamer, all my classic systems would look like a dried up dog turd had been smeared across my screen.

But also that the input lag would make said games unplayable as well due to the processing required to blow up a gaming system with a limited resolution to 1080p.

Well, today I had a revelation.

I bought Sega MegaDrive Ultimate Collection for the PS3 after reading about how well the emulation was done on this compilation and how the developer turned every pixel into a 3x3 sized version for the perfect recreation on HDTVs.

Well, since I only have had my new TV for almost 2 weeks now, I hadn't tested out my MegaDrive yet.

I did test my Saturn, DreamCast, SNES, N64 and NES which all look great besides the NES and N64. But that has probably more to do with the actual hardware and video output then anything else.

When I booted up the PS3 compilation earlier this week it hit me that the games looked very fuzzy and I thought that my Japanese Saturn looked much better than that. So before starting to think that I was imagining things, I booted up Bubble Bobble Symphony.

My buddy who was here at the time also noticed the huge difference in sharpness and vibrancy in both images.

I thought that it might have to do with the difference in resolution between the Saturn and the MegaDrive which would make it easier to make a Saturn game look much better than a MegaDrive one when blown up like that.

But I had to make sure.

So today I decided to hook up my Japanese MegaDrive as well as my PS3 with Sonic 2 and Streets of Rage too see how it would turn out.

Well the difference is huge!

Not only do the games on the original hardware look just as good as the 1080p counterparts, they look vastly superior in every possible way.

I wanted to take pictures to show the difference, but since I only have a DSi to take pictures with atm, that wouldn't make my point any clearer.

Even though I set the PS3 version to it's original 4:3 screensize with smoothening off, compared to a 16:9 stretched original MegaDrive image connected through RGB scart, the old version jumps out without a shadow of a doubt.

The PS3 games are dark, drab and fuzzy and have distorted colours compared to the originals, while the MegaDrive versions look just as good as they always did (minus scanlines naturally, so it's not the exact same as a CRT picture).

Extremely sharp, vibrant colours that jump of the screen and very bright like they should be.

You can clearly see every single pixel and how well it's defined compared to the PS3 compilation which has fuzzy edges all around with or without the smoothening effect turned off.

Needless to say, input lag plays no factor whatsoever or else all of this wouldn't matter anyway.

This was a total surprise to me since all I've read online is how absolutely horrendous old systems look on HDTVs.

Hell most people swear that their Wii looks like absolute crap, with or without component cables.

Which is another thing I didn't understand as mine looks bloody marvelous through component.

Everyone keeps telling people to turn the sharpness setting all the way down when playing a Wii or anything that's not next gen, but I have actually turned the sharpness a bit up from the medium setting and it looks astounding.

Same with my Saturn and other systems.

I've read a couple of posts on other boards which say that their Wii as well as PS2 looks terrific as well on their HDTV and be it coincidence or not (I doubt it), they also have a Panasonic Plasma set. (LCDs seem to be a whole other matter though, but fortunately I don't have much experience with those)

Now what's the purpose of this rant?

Just to let people know that there is indeed a way to get the very best in current gen games as well as the best home movie experience, while still being able to enjoy all the wonders of retro gaming without having to worry about games being unplayable due to lag or have them become so ugly that you can't stand to look at them anymore due to awful upscaling techniques.

If I had known this before selling out for a new TV, it would have saved me a huge amount of time, and what's more important, I wouldn't have had to go through all the stressful moments wondering if I was about to do the right thing or not.

The one I have and love is the Panasonic Viera 600Hz plasma TX-P46G10 with the new NeoPDP screen.

[DPsx7]

I'd rather keep the consoles and pass on the HDTV. They aren't worth the price yet. Right now for me the PS3 is the only thing HD capable and HD isn't even required for it.

[meppi]

I'd rather keep the consoles and pass on the HDTV. They aren't worth the price yet. Right now for me the PS3 is the only thing HD capable and HD isn't even required for it.

I said the exact same thing for a long time. Then I bought one and watched a couple of my favourite movies on Bluray and played WipEouT HD.

Let's just say, I'm not going back.

[Thor]

Well I've played my Wii on my rear projection HDTV and it played fine but I play it on my flat panel HDTV and played a bit of Super Mario Bros. and the timing was total crap. I fell down the first hole in the game and I have not done that since I was really young. There were many other place that I found that I was messing up on and it was getting frustrated with the timing. So I was thinking that I'm going to go down to a thrift store and pick up an B&W TV to play my old games. I don't know something about playing NES a B&W TV would just bring back so many memories of being at my friends home in the basement or in other friends rooms playing classic games that just really appeals to me. But I have played my Sonic Sega Genesis collection on this same TV and never had an issue. I guess I'll just have to try out some other consoles. The oldest console that I've played on my flat panel was my GCN and I didn't notice any problems with that either.

[Gnash]

I heard that people were having trouble with Virtual Console games and hdtvs, the games just don't show up. Also I hate that oily look to them. Why can't they do it like monitors were the res is scaled instead of interpolated.

[DPsx7]

I said the exact same thing for a long time. Then I bought one and watched a couple of my favourite movies on Bluray and played WipEouT HD.

Let's just say, I'm not going back.

People keep saying that but the only use HD has is for movies and sports. Neither of which I watch. I've seen HD in stores and didn't want it, and all the complaints that it makes games look like crap aren't going to change my mind.

[E-Day]

It's also good for all TV shows when shot in HD. And gaming.

[Thor]

I heard that people were having trouble with Virtual Console games and hdtvs, the games just don't show up. Also I hate that oily look to them. Why can't they do it like monitors were the res is scaled instead of interpolated.

I guess I'll just have to try an actual NES then maybe it is just VC messing up.

[meppi]

It certainly depends on the type of TV you're using.

And not just simply LCD or plasma either, sometimes not even all the various series of a certain brand are the same.

I did read on various forums that plasmas are much better when it comes to reducing gaming lag or input lag to be more precise, which is the thing that screws up the jumps in Super Mario Galaxy for instance.

That's why it's so important to get a set that does this just right so you don't end up with having to put everything besides a 360 or a PS3 in the bedroom, since they don't play right on the big tv downstairs.

The issues with several VC games is one that is dependent on how the game is emulated.

Nintendo is supposed to be fixing those problems and several games have already been updated, but some still don't show up.

They do say that you can contact them if you find one that doesn't work correctly on a HDTV.

I haven't come across a single one so far though.

People keep saying that but the only use HD has is for movies and sports. Neither of which I watch. I've seen HD in stores and didn't want it, and all the complaints that it makes games look like crap aren't going to change my mind.

Wether you like it or not, it's the natural evolution of TVs.

The only sport I watch is TNA wrestling these days, but I do love movies very much.

Also I played my PS3 2 weeks on a regular TV and it doesn't look bad, that's true, but when playing it on a 1080p set it looks so much better. It's hard to compare.

Playing down the difference in image quality is just being ignorant, no matter if you love movies, games or regular TV shows.

Also why do you think I posted my impressions about the TV I bought?

To show people that all the dumb crap about retrogames looking like dogshit doesn't need to be the only option they have.

The only thing they need to do is open their eyes and see the choices they got and decide to make the right one.

The problem is that you're much more likely to pick up a set that does make your old games look awful, instead of getting lucky and picking one of the few HDTVs that does a wonderful job not only on movies or new consoles, but also on the older generations.

[Gnash]

HDTVs should be able to show the pixels of a game like Super Mario Bros perfect. No round corners, yet that oily look just pisses me off.

[meppi]

HDTVs should be able to show the pixels of a game like Super Mario Bros perfect. No round corners, yet that oily look just pisses me off.

Well mine does on all my other systems, but then again all my other systems support RGB scart which isn't available in the US as far as I know.

The closest you'd come would be s-video but it's still quite a bit off from the sharpness and vibrant colors of RGB cables.

And the NES only supported RF of composite, which mean that you're stuck with the fuzzy look no matter what kind of tv you're using.

A smaller screen will naturally hide the imperfections better.

The only way to get the pixel perfect NES look is by either using the NES arcade boards that are out there which do support RGB natively or by going the emulated route like the VC for instance.

[E-Day]

I wouldn't call TNA a sport. It's anything but

I have noticed something with LCDs that I haven't on plasma, which has convinced me I want a plasma. I was watching Marley & Me on a Sony Bravia in the store, and noticed that the characters seemed to move oddly; it looked unnnatural and wrong. It was a 120hz set, so I wasn't sure if it was that jittering I have heard about or not. But it certainly didn't look right, no matter how far back I was.

Then I went to another section of the store where they had ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL Samsung LED televisions. On one they had demo look of faster moving action footage - surfing, cars racing by, a foot chase scene from some movie - which looked better than anything I have seen on an LCD or plasma. On the LED set beside it was Paul Blart Mall Cop. Slower moving, typical movie stuff. Again, Kevin James' movements looked really unnatural, and "jittery", I suppose. He was at his kitchen table or something; it just didn't look right. I have yet to notice this effect on a plasma, and I hope I never do since then I won't know what to buy.

[Gnash]

Well mine does on all my other systems, but then again all my other systems support RGB scart which isn't available in the US as far as I know.

The closest you'd come would be s-video but it's still quite a bit off from the sharpness and vibrant colors of RGB cables.

And the NES only supported RF of composite, which mean that you're stuck with the fuzzy look no matter what kind of tv you're using.

A smaller screen will naturally hide the imperfections better.

The only way to get the pixel perfect NES look is by either using the NES arcade boards that are out there which do support RGB natively or by going the emulated route like the VC for instance.

I meant using the Wii. If you use an emu to run an nes game full screen its pixel perfect. Not on a HDTV it interpolates or something so you get a slight fuzzy or oily look, as you do with DVDs on HDTV. Some really expensive sony TVs I've seen do this perfect, but most just make the image larger by guessing the missing parts.

[DPsx7]

The only good thing about HD is that the prices of SD sets dropped a lot. My TV hasn't broken yet but if and when it does go I can probably find a new set for like $50.

All I can say is from what I've seen there are far more negatives than positives. And being they still cost $1000+ I don't see the point.

[8bitforever]

I just found a 9 year old Sony Trinitron Monitor for free at a local doctor's office(they were going to throw it away). I hooked up my computer and started some emulators and they look better on the Sony then on my nice HP LCD monitor. Ha!!!!! I love it!!!

[Gnash]

Samsung has some SD tvs in slim format some can do 480p which is the best for a wii and vc. Cheaper, faster, and games look great. I've only seen up to 29" though :( but it has HDTV tuner.

[Count_Zero]

Oh, by the way, the reason the games in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection looks fuzzy is probably because scaling is turned on. You turn that of and it will look all vibrant and colorful again.

[Gnash]

I don't have the collection but that filter they added to smooth things up looks terrible in screenshots I've seen.

[meppi]

Oh, by the way, the reason the games in Sonic's Ultimate Genesis Collection looks fuzzy is probably because scaling is turned on. You turn that of and it will look all vibrant and colorful again.

That's what I thought as well, but even with the borders and at 4:3 it looks fuzzier than my original MegaDrive stretched out to 16:9. Weird, I know.

[Gnash]

I don't know about everyone but to me the best look is sharp pixels. No smoothing, no high res, just sharp and clear pixels on my mario bros.

[meppi]

I don't know about everyone but to me the best look is sharp pixels. No smoothing, no high res, just sharp and clear pixels on my mario bros.

100% agree with that.

[Areala]

I don't have the collection but that filter they added to smooth things up looks terrible in screenshots I've seen.

I don't know about the 360 version, but you can disable the filter on the PS3 version. Makes the games look just like they would have played if you hooked your old Genesis up to your new HDTV.

My Magnavox big screen rear-projection TV is 8 years old, and not truly HD since it won't do 1080p or 720p, but it gives out a great 480p for low-end resolution, and a very nice looking 1080i for PS3 games that are formatted for that setting. Genesis Collection looks just like it does when I connect the Genesis and plug in Sonic, only I can play with my wireless controllers and don't have to worry about swapping carts.

*huggles*

Areala

[Jibbajaba]

The only way to play classic systems on a modern HDTV is with RGB cables and an XRGB. Even then, they still look better on an old CRT-based RGB display.